Thank you, Vinay. The well meaning actions of billionaires like Bloomberg are full of ignorance as you point out. Free med school for those who pledge interest in primary care MIGHT work but how would one enforce if the student elects to become a surgeon after med school after two years of a family practice residency? These actions wreak of virtue signaling!!
Why do you assume he's well-meaning? He supported the war on Iraq and helped further degrade the NYC school system. And virtually every philanthropic effect he's had on the health system has been negative.
You don't value what you don't pay for as much as you do what you paid for. Most doctors would be better served by efforts to reduce the ridiculous price of undergraduate education, which is elevated because the free market forces are removed by government subsidies of loans.
Making med-school free for those going into primary care or pediatrics makes a lot of sense to me. Similar to teachers getting their tuition forgiven for teaching in low-income districts. Otherwise I agree - why make med-school free? Why not make a teaching degree free?
The answer to primary care isn't to divert physicians away from specialties. Specialty care is even more underserved them primary care with less ability to staff up mid levels (PA/NP/RN)to meet the needs
The long goal is to make all med school free - allowing the argument to move to socialized medicine, and paying doctors in the equivalent of 80-90k in todays dollars no matter the speciality. We left bringing the best and brightest into medicine a long time ago. This is just the left playing the long game better.....
Absolutely right. These stunts are misleading to the public - similar to when Einstein did this. "Oh look, more underserved Bronx students *from the Bronx* will be drawn to Einstein!" (this doesn't happen- - and if it does, the numbers are minute).
The real version of "free med school" comes by way of either committing to primary care via the HRSA National Health Service Corp or going through the military or VA HPSP. I'm not sure what mix of students choose these paths, but I'm thinking it's a very different decision process than someone considering NYU vs whatever else is "free".
Cost of medical school debt may keep some from pursuing primary care, but the way to fix the disparity is to start paying a lot more for E&M and a lot less for procedures. Medicare paid my dermatologist as much for freezing off 3 actinic keratoses that took 5 minutes as they paid my internist for an annual visit that took him 40 minutes. Which took more skill and brainwork? Any wonder dermatology is competitive?
Just learned that in other countries students start med school after high school. Much more sensible approach and less time to become a doctor, lower overall costs also.
I’d be interested to hear your views on how gifts like this should be used as opposed to the flaws in this and other gifts. Instead of pointing out all the problems what are the potential solutions?
Especially if it were aimed at older people looking to get into teaching.
There are a lot of SAHMs who want to return to the workforce by becoming a teacher, but to get a credential can cost $25-$50K. What's the point of that when you are 50 and have 15 years left and are only making $50K/year anyways (because despite your pre-kid industry experience, you start as a year 1 teacher). Plus if your husband makes a good salary, you're being taxed at your husband's level..... In California that could mean 50% of your teacher salary goes to taxes.
I have a friend making this choice, and while I understand her desire to go back to work, financially and stress-wise it's a loss for her family. I thought about it as well, and decided it just wasn't worth it.
Totally agree. What you described applies to people I know, including me. I chose to do private tutoring. Less money, but more freedom and less bureaucracy.
Perhaps Bloomberg could subsidize private one-on-one tutoring for poor students.
Hopkins will rot from the inside out, bc it'll be run by one man now. Furthermore, these kids have no skin in the game. We'll see the effect in the attrition rate; many kids will give med school the ol' college try and give up during the tough times. Something about putting a price tag on higher education fosters stewardship of the attaining and maintaining of knowledge.
Oh, my! This is absolutely spot-on. To hear, read rather, someone who aptly and succinctly captures my thoughts, skepticism and ‘holy anger’ at the accolades poured out over this by everyone is absolutely incredible and comforting. Yes, I know I am one of the few who do not get carried away by some of these ‘philanthropic’ acts that are well intended (decidedly) but one-sided, not well thought out and sometimes less beneficial than they could be. But that’s me. That’s my world. And I am happy that it’s not the only one that exists!
Doesn't matter if it's free or not. It's what they teach or don't and how doctors are controlled in the system. Health will not improve as in people will not become healthier because the system will stay the same controlled by the establishment...the AMA and big pharma, basically. This is yet again further proof that the richest among us are not always the smartest.
The point of subsidizing medical school is to attract the intellectual capital (top undergrad students) that's got other options (finance, tech, banking). Suggesting tying it to primary care is absurd, as there's at least as big a deficit in specialty coverage as primary care, where most primary care can be off loaded to mid-level designees (RN, NP, PA)
People going into Finance and Tech are less likely to want to be people facing - there's a big difference in motivation. Also, don't you go premed - bio and chemistry - before being a doctor? Finance/Tech/Banking tends to be Computer science and math or even physics.
No. Premed students capable of getting into medical school are typically elite. They respond to the same economic signals as students going into law, engineering, computer science, entrepreneurship, and finance. Many such students anecdotally decided against medicine seeing high cost and decreasing future financial prospects
Or people who will comply with orders rather than what’s best for patients?
Thank you, Vinay. The well meaning actions of billionaires like Bloomberg are full of ignorance as you point out. Free med school for those who pledge interest in primary care MIGHT work but how would one enforce if the student elects to become a surgeon after med school after two years of a family practice residency? These actions wreak of virtue signaling!!
You forgive tuition after they go into the field. Each year in primary care gets you a portion of tuition forgiven.
Why? We can just deploy more mid level providers at 1/3 the cost to meet most of the primary care gap.
Why do you assume he's well-meaning? He supported the war on Iraq and helped further degrade the NYC school system. And virtually every philanthropic effect he's had on the health system has been negative.
You don't value what you don't pay for as much as you do what you paid for. Most doctors would be better served by efforts to reduce the ridiculous price of undergraduate education, which is elevated because the free market forces are removed by government subsidies of loans.
Making med-school free for those going into primary care or pediatrics makes a lot of sense to me. Similar to teachers getting their tuition forgiven for teaching in low-income districts. Otherwise I agree - why make med-school free? Why not make a teaching degree free?
The answer to primary care isn't to divert physicians away from specialties. Specialty care is even more underserved them primary care with less ability to staff up mid levels (PA/NP/RN)to meet the needs
Didn't medicine change when the Rockefellers took it over. More co-opting of a field that gets more and more ruined.
It's a scary thought that we need to import doctors. Maybe not scary for us - but for the countries that they're leaving.
The long goal is to make all med school free - allowing the argument to move to socialized medicine, and paying doctors in the equivalent of 80-90k in todays dollars no matter the speciality. We left bringing the best and brightest into medicine a long time ago. This is just the left playing the long game better.....
Absolutely right. These stunts are misleading to the public - similar to when Einstein did this. "Oh look, more underserved Bronx students *from the Bronx* will be drawn to Einstein!" (this doesn't happen- - and if it does, the numbers are minute).
The real version of "free med school" comes by way of either committing to primary care via the HRSA National Health Service Corp or going through the military or VA HPSP. I'm not sure what mix of students choose these paths, but I'm thinking it's a very different decision process than someone considering NYU vs whatever else is "free".
Cost of medical school debt may keep some from pursuing primary care, but the way to fix the disparity is to start paying a lot more for E&M and a lot less for procedures. Medicare paid my dermatologist as much for freezing off 3 actinic keratoses that took 5 minutes as they paid my internist for an annual visit that took him 40 minutes. Which took more skill and brainwork? Any wonder dermatology is competitive?
Just learned that in other countries students start med school after high school. Much more sensible approach and less time to become a doctor, lower overall costs also.
I’d be interested to hear your views on how gifts like this should be used as opposed to the flaws in this and other gifts. Instead of pointing out all the problems what are the potential solutions?
Great question. I think such investment in K-12 education is much better for society than investment in professional education.
Also, a billion dollars can do a lot more for the K-12 education. It can positively influence many more students.
Especially if it were aimed at older people looking to get into teaching.
There are a lot of SAHMs who want to return to the workforce by becoming a teacher, but to get a credential can cost $25-$50K. What's the point of that when you are 50 and have 15 years left and are only making $50K/year anyways (because despite your pre-kid industry experience, you start as a year 1 teacher). Plus if your husband makes a good salary, you're being taxed at your husband's level..... In California that could mean 50% of your teacher salary goes to taxes.
I have a friend making this choice, and while I understand her desire to go back to work, financially and stress-wise it's a loss for her family. I thought about it as well, and decided it just wasn't worth it.
Totally agree. What you described applies to people I know, including me. I chose to do private tutoring. Less money, but more freedom and less bureaucracy.
Perhaps Bloomberg could subsidize private one-on-one tutoring for poor students.
Hopkins will rot from the inside out, bc it'll be run by one man now. Furthermore, these kids have no skin in the game. We'll see the effect in the attrition rate; many kids will give med school the ol' college try and give up during the tough times. Something about putting a price tag on higher education fosters stewardship of the attaining and maintaining of knowledge.
Oh, my! This is absolutely spot-on. To hear, read rather, someone who aptly and succinctly captures my thoughts, skepticism and ‘holy anger’ at the accolades poured out over this by everyone is absolutely incredible and comforting. Yes, I know I am one of the few who do not get carried away by some of these ‘philanthropic’ acts that are well intended (decidedly) but one-sided, not well thought out and sometimes less beneficial than they could be. But that’s me. That’s my world. And I am happy that it’s not the only one that exists!
Doesn't matter if it's free or not. It's what they teach or don't and how doctors are controlled in the system. Health will not improve as in people will not become healthier because the system will stay the same controlled by the establishment...the AMA and big pharma, basically. This is yet again further proof that the richest among us are not always the smartest.
I’m not sure pediatricians or primary care docs will make millions, but I do agree they make more than school teachers
The point of subsidizing medical school is to attract the intellectual capital (top undergrad students) that's got other options (finance, tech, banking). Suggesting tying it to primary care is absurd, as there's at least as big a deficit in specialty coverage as primary care, where most primary care can be off loaded to mid-level designees (RN, NP, PA)
People going into Finance and Tech are less likely to want to be people facing - there's a big difference in motivation. Also, don't you go premed - bio and chemistry - before being a doctor? Finance/Tech/Banking tends to be Computer science and math or even physics.
There's plenty of talent. Just not enough spots.
No. Premed students capable of getting into medical school are typically elite. They respond to the same economic signals as students going into law, engineering, computer science, entrepreneurship, and finance. Many such students anecdotally decided against medicine seeing high cost and decreasing future financial prospects