Why are you surprised? These are the covidians, with a new target. Lockdown Russia and Russians. Russians are now the unvaxxed. Putin is the new virus. Its right in front of you, we created and empowered these monsters over the last 2 years and are surprised that the behavior isn't limited to covid. We are in for a really rough 20 years
Vinay, Caplan has become dangerous on many issues. Like you, I have tried working with him and found that he is utterly and absolutely unwilling to change anything he has said...even when it is demonstrably wrong and, even worse, demonstrably unethical.
His only qualification as ethicist is he calls himself one. I have seldom found his views well framed or defended (they are defended, it is just that his defenses are about as good as your defense of masks...lol). Getting headlines is his entire life shtick.
Really sad that he gets so much copy when people like Kheriaty are censored/fired.
Is this not the same man who coauthored the article: "Should Patients Who Refuse COVID Vaccination Be Denied Transplantation Eligibility?" Dr Caplan seems to prefer to use the stick versus the carrot approach toward those he perceives to be as wrong or evil. That makes him a most unethical ethicist. He recently coauthored another paper "Incentives for COVID-19 vaccination" where he and the other 2 dozen authors outlined the 3 criteria necessary for a successful vaccination uptake campaign: readily available valuable rewards. That must include a kidney, liver, heart or lung.....or life saving drugs.
His famed CNN interview should have cost him his job: "I’ll condemn them. I’ll shame them. I'll blame them … We can penalize them more, say you will have to pay more on your hospital bill. You can’t get life insurance, disability insurance at affordable rates if you aren’t vaccinated."
I think Dr Caplan embodies the self promotion hubris some academics display (current SubStacker not included). A chance to publish is a chance to build ones CV and therefore power.
As Dr Prasad states should an innocent Russian with cancer be punished for the sins of their leader? And if so where do we draw the line on punishing civilians to force international policy?
Were where you when Iraqi toddlers were dying of diarrhea by the hundreds of thousands b/c They couldn’t get simple antibiotics due to US sanctions?
Many Iranians currently don't have access to basic medications because of financial sanctions? There is no nuclear medical testing, gamma knife cancer treatment, chemotherapy, etc for innocent civilians in Iran just because of the US sanctions…
There are many mire countries whose civilians are suffering b/c of unethical US sanctions.
All ethics must give way to the process psychologists call “splitting”: Identify the other person or group as bad or evil, in all or nothing terms, thus erasing the uncomfortable ambiguity of reality, in which good and bad exist together, even in oneself. Denial can extend to erasing the value of humans on the wrong side of the infantile split, and is sustained by acting out aggressive or annihilatory impulses on them, without conscious conflict.
When such a psychological process is at work, ethics is reduced to a simple binary.
These individuals are criminals. Warcrimes is correct. After the last 2 years, this shouldnt surprise me ( with Trudeau in Canada it’s worse) but this person and this philosophy is criminal IMO.
Vinay, I agree with you, but Caplan is just following the Biden administration policy. The sanctions are designed to impose pain on ordinary people so they will rise up. You might direct some attention to the underlying cause.
We truly live in upside down world. An ETHICIST is proposing this? Governments do horrible things in the name of war. But...an ETHICIST?! Reminds me of how the woke-est social justice warriors are the most likely to wanna coerce any and everyone into taking an experimental vaccine. Is this ETHICIST also speaking in the name of the “greater good”? Makes me (again) wanna throw shit.
Thank you for speaking out on this Vinay. And I’m learning so much from fellow commenters, so thank you all, too.
I have come across Dr. Caplan's work many times over the last decade, and I struggle to see ethics as a guiding force in his articles. The only consistency I have observed in his efforts has been in the pursuit of promoting a common narrative rather than any pursuit of truth or ethics.
Ignore Caplan on this issue. Why? It sure seems that he is merely seeking (in rather clumsy fashion) to get his name "back out there" with this very odd, outre, and totally wacko proposal that the United States should perhaps ". . . . . . . . . . .keep Russia from getting pharmaceuticals. . . .etc." In the past, Art did do good basic work in the general field of medical ethics when he was on the faculty here at Minnesota, but he has changed his modus operandi drastically as more years have accrued for him in harness. This present hoo-hawing reeks of crass *image-promotion* on his part via the regrettably overused, hinky, and vastly unoriginal gimmick of "just being controversial so as to stir up publicity". Ignore him. Perhaps he has been sitting too comfortably on the cushions of self-congratulation for a long time. Ignore him on the Russia thing. He needs to find a new hobby that can occupy him and help combat his evident need for excitement. I suggest bee-keeping, skydiving, or spelunking.
To externally squeeze a people to make them rebel against their government has always seemed to be just as barbaric as the bad regime's behavior. As I have observed so often these past 2 years, the distasteful behavior of some of these well known professionals seems to evidence of a hidden agenda.
My first impression of Caplan years ago, largely based on his position and title, was that he would be very wise. But then after listening to him, didn't quite know what to think. Well, he clarified my confusion. Not being an ethicist myself, shouldn't there be a benefit at some point that would clarify the ethical choice? Well, I can't think of any benefit to his recommendations. Russian scientists would be the people we would want to engage in as a group to influence Putin, not cut them off and make them another enemy. They will then be more inclined to support him. Russian patients will know they are being used as pawns and again give Putin more power over their lives. Putin may be a psychopath and thus may not care if a few, sick Russian civilians die, with the added token benefit of saving a few healthcare dollars anyway.
Why are you surprised? These are the covidians, with a new target. Lockdown Russia and Russians. Russians are now the unvaxxed. Putin is the new virus. Its right in front of you, we created and empowered these monsters over the last 2 years and are surprised that the behavior isn't limited to covid. We are in for a really rough 20 years
Vinay, Caplan has become dangerous on many issues. Like you, I have tried working with him and found that he is utterly and absolutely unwilling to change anything he has said...even when it is demonstrably wrong and, even worse, demonstrably unethical.
His only qualification as ethicist is he calls himself one. I have seldom found his views well framed or defended (they are defended, it is just that his defenses are about as good as your defense of masks...lol). Getting headlines is his entire life shtick.
Really sad that he gets so much copy when people like Kheriaty are censored/fired.
Is this not the same man who coauthored the article: "Should Patients Who Refuse COVID Vaccination Be Denied Transplantation Eligibility?" Dr Caplan seems to prefer to use the stick versus the carrot approach toward those he perceives to be as wrong or evil. That makes him a most unethical ethicist. He recently coauthored another paper "Incentives for COVID-19 vaccination" where he and the other 2 dozen authors outlined the 3 criteria necessary for a successful vaccination uptake campaign: readily available valuable rewards. That must include a kidney, liver, heart or lung.....or life saving drugs.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8866051/pdf/main.pdf
His famed CNN interview should have cost him his job: "I’ll condemn them. I’ll shame them. I'll blame them … We can penalize them more, say you will have to pay more on your hospital bill. You can’t get life insurance, disability insurance at affordable rates if you aren’t vaccinated."
I think Dr Caplan embodies the self promotion hubris some academics display (current SubStacker not included). A chance to publish is a chance to build ones CV and therefore power.
As Dr Prasad states should an innocent Russian with cancer be punished for the sins of their leader? And if so where do we draw the line on punishing civilians to force international policy?
Well, good morning.
Were where you when Iraqi toddlers were dying of diarrhea by the hundreds of thousands b/c They couldn’t get simple antibiotics due to US sanctions?
Many Iranians currently don't have access to basic medications because of financial sanctions? There is no nuclear medical testing, gamma knife cancer treatment, chemotherapy, etc for innocent civilians in Iran just because of the US sanctions…
There are many mire countries whose civilians are suffering b/c of unethical US sanctions.
This has been going on for decades now..
But I agree with you. This is unethical.
All ethics must give way to the process psychologists call “splitting”: Identify the other person or group as bad or evil, in all or nothing terms, thus erasing the uncomfortable ambiguity of reality, in which good and bad exist together, even in oneself. Denial can extend to erasing the value of humans on the wrong side of the infantile split, and is sustained by acting out aggressive or annihilatory impulses on them, without conscious conflict.
When such a psychological process is at work, ethics is reduced to a simple binary.
These individuals are criminals. Warcrimes is correct. After the last 2 years, this shouldnt surprise me ( with Trudeau in Canada it’s worse) but this person and this philosophy is criminal IMO.
Vinay, I agree with you, but Caplan is just following the Biden administration policy. The sanctions are designed to impose pain on ordinary people so they will rise up. You might direct some attention to the underlying cause.
We truly live in upside down world. An ETHICIST is proposing this? Governments do horrible things in the name of war. But...an ETHICIST?! Reminds me of how the woke-est social justice warriors are the most likely to wanna coerce any and everyone into taking an experimental vaccine. Is this ETHICIST also speaking in the name of the “greater good”? Makes me (again) wanna throw shit.
Thank you for speaking out on this Vinay. And I’m learning so much from fellow commenters, so thank you all, too.
This is how we got internment camps. These people are crazy.
I have come across Dr. Caplan's work many times over the last decade, and I struggle to see ethics as a guiding force in his articles. The only consistency I have observed in his efforts has been in the pursuit of promoting a common narrative rather than any pursuit of truth or ethics.
Ignore Caplan on this issue. Why? It sure seems that he is merely seeking (in rather clumsy fashion) to get his name "back out there" with this very odd, outre, and totally wacko proposal that the United States should perhaps ". . . . . . . . . . .keep Russia from getting pharmaceuticals. . . .etc." In the past, Art did do good basic work in the general field of medical ethics when he was on the faculty here at Minnesota, but he has changed his modus operandi drastically as more years have accrued for him in harness. This present hoo-hawing reeks of crass *image-promotion* on his part via the regrettably overused, hinky, and vastly unoriginal gimmick of "just being controversial so as to stir up publicity". Ignore him. Perhaps he has been sitting too comfortably on the cushions of self-congratulation for a long time. Ignore him on the Russia thing. He needs to find a new hobby that can occupy him and help combat his evident need for excitement. I suggest bee-keeping, skydiving, or spelunking.
To externally squeeze a people to make them rebel against their government has always seemed to be just as barbaric as the bad regime's behavior. As I have observed so often these past 2 years, the distasteful behavior of some of these well known professionals seems to evidence of a hidden agenda.
My first impression of Caplan years ago, largely based on his position and title, was that he would be very wise. But then after listening to him, didn't quite know what to think. Well, he clarified my confusion. Not being an ethicist myself, shouldn't there be a benefit at some point that would clarify the ethical choice? Well, I can't think of any benefit to his recommendations. Russian scientists would be the people we would want to engage in as a group to influence Putin, not cut them off and make them another enemy. They will then be more inclined to support him. Russian patients will know they are being used as pawns and again give Putin more power over their lives. Putin may be a psychopath and thus may not care if a few, sick Russian civilians die, with the added token benefit of saving a few healthcare dollars anyway.