35 Comments

What does it even mean to say that masking works for individuals but not for a population? That is such a nonsensical statement, especially coming from someone who once claimed to be "Mr. Science."

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I thought the same thing. If I’m being very charitable, the only thing I can figure out is this: he’s saying that masks are efficacious, but not effective. So, they work when used absolutely correctly, under certain fixed conditions, which are largely not the circumstances in which most American (who are still trying to use them) find themselves. If that’s not what he meant, then I certainly agree with Dr. Prasad; there’s no evidence, and he never ran any kind of good quality trial to generate evidence.

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And there is also no evidence that they are efficacious. There is evidence that N95s cause one to breath 1-2 orders of magnitude of organic volatiles over levels considered safe, though.

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Fauci did not advocate for RCT because he knew that they would prove that the narrative of masking was false. He could not let the public know that masking was stupid. Plus it let the government see who was controllable and who wasn't. The fear and propaganda was very good. The unmasked could be demonized and blamed for everything, pretty much like the Nazi propaganda against the Jews in the 1930's.

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I strongly suggest "Serious Adverse Events - An Uncensored History of AIDS" by Celia Farber, first published in 2006. The damage Fauci caused to AIDS research and advancement of science is unparalleled in modern history. Last three years speak for themselves, he is not interested in facts and science.

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Also, The Real Anthony Fauci is eye opening.

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The Fauch suffers from a common flaw that self promoters often cannot detect: He has utterly no awareness of nor concern about his presentation of self. This disorder will smell like arrogance but it’s actually something worse.

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So, we are back to the pre-COVID scientific consensus (an oxymoron but…) which was: masks have not been shown to prevent the spread of respiratory viruses (not even contamination during surgery!) and lockdowns are not an option as they will cause far more damage than they will prevent (Sweden has higher COVID deaths but lower excess deaths per capita than its hardline nordic neighbours, and the consequences of this 3 years long mass hysteria, stupidity and hatred is likely not anywhere near over). Tragic that this little (intellectually) man, with a largely overblown reputation and ego and totally disproportionate powers (for anybody), who presents himself as The Science (he is a physician, not a scientist; no MSc or PhD; a clinical immunologist is an ersatz of an immunologist) is still considered a reference by mainstream medias, hardline Democrats and gullible people in general.

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His legacy is hugely tarnished indeed, but his family and heirs won’t complain with all the $ he got from this. Be nice to “Sackler” the guy.

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Yes, the CDC can't not mandate anything but they do put our their opinions which is, "The CDC suggests everyone wear masks." Citizens, business owners all look to the CDC for guidance. If the CDC suggests it, we must do it, and thus the grocery store, the nail salon, the hospital, offices all take that "suggestion" as gospel truth and run with it to the inth degree.

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Once again Dr Prasad suggests that RCT is needed to prove that as an individual your risk of community contact and infection is the same as being un masked.

Fauci is amazingly suggesting that capturing the vector of droplets before inhaling them by wearing a mask reduces your risk!

Full loss of respect indeed!

Germ theory is dead! Hope you will explain this to your cancer patients when you enter their room unmasked!

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VP is not suggesting the germ theory is inacurrate, simply that impressions are… impressions, not science. Medical history is replete theories/procedures that were deemed obviously true but turned out to be useless or deleterious. Why would we allow mainstream medicine and not alternative medicine to not be subjected to the scientific method when it suits our impressions?

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So, if you enter a cancer patient’s room and you have cold…. Forget Covid! let’s just say you have rhinovirus… and you are satisfied that your patient is protected by your mask? By what percentage? Are there studies to prove your assertion?

You know, Semmelweis hypothesized and proved with a randomized controlled trial that handwashing would save women from puerperal sepsis. He was alienated, vilified, and ended up dying in an insane asylum for his assertions. Perhaps, sometimes we do not want to do the randomized controlled trials because they will prove that we have been harming our patients. Please ask any doctor that believes wholeheartedly that masking with a surgical mask prevents the transmission of viral infection to their patients, and you will only be rewarded with the knowledge that there are those doctors who understand the truth, and those that understand the reality, and so those doctors that understand the reality will not put their patients at risk by entering the room with a cold and a mask, and those that believe in their convenient truth, who will put their patients at risk. Please explain YOUR theory.

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The one who has the potential to spread “germs” wears the 😷, as in the surgeon performing surgery, not necessarily the patient wearing the mask. The patient is protected FROM germs by the germ carriers not necessarily protecting themselves by wearing a mask?

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The problem with masks is if there is not a complete seal, the airborne virus particles will escape thru any gaps. Early on in the everyone must mask, there was large complaints about glasses fogging up. That fog potentially contained virus particles that escaped the mask. Proof that masks do not work. No one publicly (or was allowed publicly) to say that fog was potentially escaping virus/masks to not protect you or others.

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As you say, “Once again Dr Prasad suggests that RCT is needed to prove that as an individual your risk of community contact and infection is the same as being un masked. “

DR. PRASAD IS CORRECT. What is your assertion? Look up Semmelweis. RCT, yes!

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“The tendency for people to reject new evidence that contradicts established beliefs”. Curiously of course it was germ theory that Ignaz Semmelweis was trying replace from the prevailing miasma or “bad airs” theory of disease. Later Pasteur, Koch and Lister gave us the germ theory.

So which established beliefs? That community masking reduces infection rates. Possibly. A RCT? Pretty hard to control.

Individual risk? Clearly germ theory isn’t what we wish to discard. As droplet dispersion is the primary vector of contagion placing a well fit barrier through which the particle is filtered is a VERY reasonable suggestion. Fauci’s assertion isn’t a Semmelweis moment.

You may feel that forcing a community to mask is likely not going to dramatically alter rates of infection. But I don’t envision this causing us to abandon germ theory?

Is this your suggestion?

Fauci is correct to suggest that masking however discomforting to you, especially in settings where you are more likely to inhale the aerosolized droplets of others is a reasonable precaution based on germ theory alone. No RCL required.

And if this is your standard for “proof” then feel free to abandon hand washing as well. But you may well raise the ire of old Ignaz!

I will glove mask and gown for my eye surgery’s, do the same while visiting an Immuno compromised patient or a patient with a know infectious disease. These practices have saved countless lives and I don’t see losing respect for Fauci for suggesting individual choice in masking.

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Semmelweis did a RCT. As you say...”As droplet dispersion is the primary vector of contagion placing a well fit barrier through which the particle is filtered is a VERY reasonable suggestion.” This is a hypothesis worthy of equipoise. All we need now is proof, not modeling or theory. Contagion is a part of human experience. It is the way young immune systems develop. In health care, protection surrounding those that are ill makes sense, not universal masking of those that are healthy. Cochrane focuses on protection and transmissibility of those that are sick with influenza or ILI’s and still showed no statistical difference. So, it is time to disprove Cochrane if your hypothesis is worthy. How other than RCT shall this be done? In the meantime we should not offer our vulnerable a false sense of security, but should arm them with reality.

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RCTs have shown some benefit for handwashing, not masking; I wash my hands (and will mask to make some scared people comfortable). Fauci went against science on masking (and lockdowns) and there is no evidence his policies saved lives overall (which is the goal of public health). At the beginning of the pandemic, he was saying exactly this in the medias: masks are essentially useless and give a false sense of security. There is however growing evidence that the same policies caused immense and mostly irreparable damage, especially in young people (impaired development, mental health crisis). They also disproportionnaly affected the poor and disenfranchised in general. He bullied all dissenters on all fronts and never admitted any mistake. He is not my idea of a scientist.

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I’m not sure it’s sad to witness. It’s what these bureaucrats crave, power, but can’t elected to gain that power. So they gain it through regulation and the appearance of being above the fray as in “I am Science.” What kind of BS statement is that?

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the good Dr. Fauci must suffer from cognitive dissonance. If an intervention works at the individual level then it has to work at the population level. He is therefore talking complete nonsense, but gets away with it because he states his views with such confidence that it seems unassailable until one starts to think about what he actually said.

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I became a paid subscriber to comment on this, because, although Vinay does not appear to engage in his own comments section, I'm hoping he will read this, because I think there is a hole in the masking-efficacy debate.

Putting aside "community masking" inefficacy, is it possible that in the case where somebody whose attendance was vital to a *mission-critical* event, which might require air travel and which cannot be easily rescheduled, and which costs six figures and months of planning, that wearing an N95 respirator properly and carefully could DELAY possible Covid transmission IN ADVANCE of the event such that this hypothetical VIP could carry out important duties?

This is the scenario I never see talked about here. Imagine you're an astronaut, and missing a launch is not an option. What do you do? Although Fauci's comments about "invidividuals" is ass-covering to the extreme, there is a question in it that needs a response.

The problem with the debate as it is talked about here, is that all the emphasis is on mortality or hospitalization numbers, and whether community masking makes any difference to the numbers as they shake out.

But that is not what is on the mind of many people, who have to make a decision about how to ensure to the best of their ability to be (1) well and (2) present for something important, partly because of the policy restrictions of the venue/company/organization. I would argue that most people in this situation are not demanding to "never catch Covid", as I feel is the narrative mission of those pushing back on the wayward PH institutions, but rather to TEMPORARILY AVOID Covid for something that would cause enormous problems if they caught it... then.

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Cochrane did not propose that masking was not effective for individuals. Even their population conclusion conceded that there are too many variables to conclusively say there is no benefit. In a pandemic even a small advantage is not insignificant.

A well fit mask will filter virus particles as an individual you are reducing your potential to inhale contagion.

The cochrane study was misused to imply individual masking had no benefit.,

Perhaps review this piece for clarification.

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/03/scicheck-what-the-cochrane-review-says-about-masks-for-covid-19-and-what-it-doesnt/

If you are in a high risk setting masking remains a very reasonable choice. COViD remains a threat that will increase through our winter. Long COViD and its potential for severe disease needs to be respected. It is not the flu.

It is IMO irresponsible to imply that a Fauci is misleading in his comments and to promote a conclusion NOT addressed in the meta analysis.

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Anything that had “ factcheck” in it’s title, i will pass.

Also, i would recommend following Jefferson’s Substack, the lead author of this cochrane NPI review, with Heneghan for clarity on this matter.

https://open.substack.com/pub/trusttheevidence?r=88dyo&utm_medium=ios

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“As the world slid into the Covid story, publication of the fourth update was delayed by several months. Several “rapid reviews” were published in the time void, including non-evidence ones using predictive models. The hole was filled with scientific trash, which enabled the retrofitting of evidence to attempt to legitimise decisions taken by third parties fuelled by lurid scenarios designed to increase the feardemic. Apparently, not even Cabinet Ministers knew how these decisions were made. The Spectator condensed this point by interviewing the UK’s then Chancellor of the Exchequer, Rishi Sunak, as follows: ..”

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Ironically, Fauci makes Trump look like the biggest truth teller ever.

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Fauci: “works for individual, not population” sounds like a deliberate tactic to distract and confuse the listener. If masking worked at the individual level, then the positive effect would be seen at population level assuming all behave as the “successful and compliant individual”. I have a big request for Prasad: Can you partner with a liquid-aerosol-particle physicist to create an animation cartoon showing what exactly goes wrong with masking?

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Fauci who is 5'7" and weighs 135 is ALWAYS the thinest person in any room. When he had to stand between Trump and Pence he looked so scared fearing what would happen if they leaned in!. Yet he refuses to admit that the BMI used by the CDC is fraudulent. Why did over one million die of Covid? They were obese and they didn't know it. I filed last year an FOIA with the CDC and they refused to respond to my question: Why in 1985 they gave up the HAMWI formula and invented a BMI whereby a 5'6" female at 185 pounds is NOT obese. Shop Buy Eat REPEAT. 65% of the US population is obese-- not 42%. And almost all are eating disordered. Body and Mind damaged. The WHO says a 35 inch waist is obese. The average American female has a 38.7 inch waistline. 100 mil have fatty liver disease. 86 mil have metabolic syndrome. We are not well.

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Sadly Fauci’s historical legacy will be what MSM decides to make it.

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