Thank you for continuing to stay on top of this issue. There are so many whackjobs on both sides and yours is one of the few voices of reason.
The whole "following the Science" thing is just noise to me now. I have lost so much faith in our public health authorities, who are either a) running on panic, b) regurgitating Pfizer talking points, c) conflating politics with real needs and d) all of the above (the most common).
Thank you once again for a summary of boostergeddon.
I read the editorial by Gruber and Krause. What I found most interesting was the concern they raised about "original antigenic sin" and boosters. It is something I have pondered since vaccination began based upon the dengue vaccine experience. Gruber and Krause wrote: "It’s also possible that repeatedly “training” the immune system to fight the original virus could reduce the effectiveness of a variant-specific booster. This phenomenon, called “original antigenic sin,” has been observed with influenza and human papillomavirus vaccines." Meaning the antigenic memory of today may interfere with the booster vaccine function in the future.
During this pandemic we have been trained, by pharma, to focus on neutralizing antibody levels, while ignoring the totality of our immune system including the cellular side. It is as though we have callosal disconnection syndrome were the right hand has no idea what the left is doing. Universal boosting epitomizes this.
Before the first VRBPAC meeting to discuss boosters I was contacted by a member of the VRB and asked my opinion on whether the Pfizer data showed boosters were safe and effective. My response was no. Small study, in-vitro data only, and no clinical data. I admire that member of the VRB for soliciting opinions from associates. We need more of that approach.
There has been far too much manipulation of data interpretation, inaccurate data reporting, narrative spin and politicization of the science of immunology, virology and public health. It is deeply disappointing. We have harmed STEM deeply. And yes much of it has occurred on the current president's watch.
I suspect all politicians respond the public cry of "do something". But our experts are supposed to examine the data dispassionately and develop rationale for the appropriate response. They are not to simply "do something". The fact that the policy must have nuance is a job for the communications staff to be mouthed by the politicians and professionals. Our current collection of people have failed the public, collectively.
We have a 10 year old boy. We decided to do the 2 doses of Pfizer after considering that the myocarditis after the second shot is primarily associated with Moderna and it is a post pubescent phenomenon. The thing that is most upsetting to me is that, if he were 16, we wouldn’t have felt like we really had a choice to forgo the second shot. We live in Seattle with mandates everywhere and his school will not honor a “philosophical exemption” after full FDA approval for his age group. There is no choice for one shot only for a 16 year old boy if your child wants to participate in life in this city. I’m afraid this same blue state policy will extend to child boosters in a few months. Like you said in one of your podcasts, what is most confusing is LACK of nuance - especially when you see what European countries are recommending for this age group. This across the board “clear” messaging is anything but and erodes my confindence in the recommendations.
But the problem is... it doesn't matter, either way. As I learned in grad school, science is not done in a vacuum and there is no science without people, humans who do not live in a vacuum. They bring all their foibles and values etc. to the table.
While I agree with Vinay that the doctors were right to not want to be associated with the anti-scientific FDA policies, I think they could have been more effective by being a vocal opposition. Dissenting votes get more publicity than the op-eds and inform the public that decisions may be flawed.
We are not unaware of how the media treats any dissent! Our media is incapable of objective discourse. This entire conversation would be removed from many platforms and is completely ignored by most media. Do a Google search "vinny prasad substack", examine the results then do a Duck search - amazing. BTW, results may change if enough people do the search! But this Substack shouldn't affect the results.
I am now being required to get the booster having had covid in January of this year and vaccination in July. I called my doctor for guidance: his guidance was boosters for all because of the CDC recommendation without consideration to my case. I am a 37 yo female with natural and vaccinated immunity. This is the line I draw in the sand. If I must lose my job than so be it.
At this point, if you're in a low risk group for serious Covid (i.e., under 60 and healthy) and take the vaccine or booster, it's on you. There's been plenty of evidence flying around that these things are neither safe, effective or necessary for you.
I'm almost 76 but am far healthier than most under 60 or even under 50. I take no medication and almost never get sick and if I do it is mild and resolves in a few hours. I recently came in 120 out of 400 in a local 5K. I worked on petition for 4 days in Feb 2020 in Penn Station NYC which often was packed like sardines -- never got symptoms. I got the J&J in April and the J&J booster 2 weeks ago. I got both shots entirely because of intense social pressure despite my conviction that I am not at risk of serious outcome. I am drawing the line with this last shot. This interview describes my lifestyle and reflects my position: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFSfL12AWjU
public health institutions have destroyed trust in medicine, to the extent that today's public health officials will cause millions of lost QALY over the next several decades while saving pretty much none during COVID
Thank you Dr. Prasad, your thoughts are well put and well thought out as always. Its obvious your frustration is mounting. Its obvious you think there is something else going on here...booster wise (amongst other things)...something is right, things aren't progressing in a safe & best practice way with re: to myocarditis and otherwise. You know this...and most importantly you identify as a Progressive Liberal and you are one of the only ones (that we ever hear bout) speaking out about how delusion things have become. What more can you do? Keep speaking rationally...but more importantly...connect with other Liberal/Progressive colleagues you have an may know in other major Liberal/mandated metropolitan areas, LA, NY, Chicago, Madison, Atlanta, etc. Connect with them, get their opinions of what they see and what they think in cities like San Fran...are they speaking out (even without a podcast)...if not, why not? Would they join you in trying to get everyone in policy making positions back to reality? When people speak out on a podcast or otherwise on policy decisions, boosters, mandates, etc...the assumption is that this is a "wacky Conservative who doesn't understand pandemics and/or only cares about themselves". This is untrue...but unfortunately to wake more people up you may need to play the game and wake more MDs up who ascribe to your side of the aisle (sadly)...please reach out to those not just in San Fran but outside to encourage those like you with experience and a respected voice to reject these boosters for all...with just not enough evidence.
One could point out that neither felt the need to resign under the “bully Trump” administration…. This happened under the “conciliatory Biden “ administration. Arguably with more on the line under the prior admin (on the face of it, anyway) than the later. Food (and drug admin) for thought.
Thank you for continuing to stay on top of this issue. There are so many whackjobs on both sides and yours is one of the few voices of reason.
The whole "following the Science" thing is just noise to me now. I have lost so much faith in our public health authorities, who are either a) running on panic, b) regurgitating Pfizer talking points, c) conflating politics with real needs and d) all of the above (the most common).
I think it must go further then that. Maybe monetary compensation?
Thank you once again for a summary of boostergeddon.
I read the editorial by Gruber and Krause. What I found most interesting was the concern they raised about "original antigenic sin" and boosters. It is something I have pondered since vaccination began based upon the dengue vaccine experience. Gruber and Krause wrote: "It’s also possible that repeatedly “training” the immune system to fight the original virus could reduce the effectiveness of a variant-specific booster. This phenomenon, called “original antigenic sin,” has been observed with influenza and human papillomavirus vaccines." Meaning the antigenic memory of today may interfere with the booster vaccine function in the future.
During this pandemic we have been trained, by pharma, to focus on neutralizing antibody levels, while ignoring the totality of our immune system including the cellular side. It is as though we have callosal disconnection syndrome were the right hand has no idea what the left is doing. Universal boosting epitomizes this.
Before the first VRBPAC meeting to discuss boosters I was contacted by a member of the VRB and asked my opinion on whether the Pfizer data showed boosters were safe and effective. My response was no. Small study, in-vitro data only, and no clinical data. I admire that member of the VRB for soliciting opinions from associates. We need more of that approach.
There has been far too much manipulation of data interpretation, inaccurate data reporting, narrative spin and politicization of the science of immunology, virology and public health. It is deeply disappointing. We have harmed STEM deeply. And yes much of it has occurred on the current president's watch.
I suspect all politicians respond the public cry of "do something". But our experts are supposed to examine the data dispassionately and develop rationale for the appropriate response. They are not to simply "do something". The fact that the policy must have nuance is a job for the communications staff to be mouthed by the politicians and professionals. Our current collection of people have failed the public, collectively.
We have a 10 year old boy. We decided to do the 2 doses of Pfizer after considering that the myocarditis after the second shot is primarily associated with Moderna and it is a post pubescent phenomenon. The thing that is most upsetting to me is that, if he were 16, we wouldn’t have felt like we really had a choice to forgo the second shot. We live in Seattle with mandates everywhere and his school will not honor a “philosophical exemption” after full FDA approval for his age group. There is no choice for one shot only for a 16 year old boy if your child wants to participate in life in this city. I’m afraid this same blue state policy will extend to child boosters in a few months. Like you said in one of your podcasts, what is most confusing is LACK of nuance - especially when you see what European countries are recommending for this age group. This across the board “clear” messaging is anything but and erodes my confindence in the recommendations.
We are open for business in Florida and you're welcome here.
Ah, but your city has scientists at its helm, right?
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not :)
But the problem is... it doesn't matter, either way. As I learned in grad school, science is not done in a vacuum and there is no science without people, humans who do not live in a vacuum. They bring all their foibles and values etc. to the table.
Indeed.
The idea of a 'vaccine' that I signed on for was a shot that would teach my immune system
how to fight this virus. A cheatsheet for the eventual test. I didn't sign on to keep
my antibody titers up as if I just had a moderate infection every 6 months. Seems to me
if keeping antibody titers up indefinitely was a cost free deal our bodies would do that.
There must be good reason our natural system doesn't do that.
While I agree with Vinay that the doctors were right to not want to be associated with the anti-scientific FDA policies, I think they could have been more effective by being a vocal opposition. Dissenting votes get more publicity than the op-eds and inform the public that decisions may be flawed.
We are not unaware of how the media treats any dissent! Our media is incapable of objective discourse. This entire conversation would be removed from many platforms and is completely ignored by most media. Do a Google search "vinny prasad substack", examine the results then do a Duck search - amazing. BTW, results may change if enough people do the search! But this Substack shouldn't affect the results.
I am now being required to get the booster having had covid in January of this year and vaccination in July. I called my doctor for guidance: his guidance was boosters for all because of the CDC recommendation without consideration to my case. I am a 37 yo female with natural and vaccinated immunity. This is the line I draw in the sand. If I must lose my job than so be it.
At this point, if you're in a low risk group for serious Covid (i.e., under 60 and healthy) and take the vaccine or booster, it's on you. There's been plenty of evidence flying around that these things are neither safe, effective or necessary for you.
I'm almost 76 but am far healthier than most under 60 or even under 50. I take no medication and almost never get sick and if I do it is mild and resolves in a few hours. I recently came in 120 out of 400 in a local 5K. I worked on petition for 4 days in Feb 2020 in Penn Station NYC which often was packed like sardines -- never got symptoms. I got the J&J in April and the J&J booster 2 weeks ago. I got both shots entirely because of intense social pressure despite my conviction that I am not at risk of serious outcome. I am drawing the line with this last shot. This interview describes my lifestyle and reflects my position: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFSfL12AWjU
public health institutions have destroyed trust in medicine, to the extent that today's public health officials will cause millions of lost QALY over the next several decades while saving pretty much none during COVID
Thank you Dr. Prasad, your thoughts are well put and well thought out as always. Its obvious your frustration is mounting. Its obvious you think there is something else going on here...booster wise (amongst other things)...something is right, things aren't progressing in a safe & best practice way with re: to myocarditis and otherwise. You know this...and most importantly you identify as a Progressive Liberal and you are one of the only ones (that we ever hear bout) speaking out about how delusion things have become. What more can you do? Keep speaking rationally...but more importantly...connect with other Liberal/Progressive colleagues you have an may know in other major Liberal/mandated metropolitan areas, LA, NY, Chicago, Madison, Atlanta, etc. Connect with them, get their opinions of what they see and what they think in cities like San Fran...are they speaking out (even without a podcast)...if not, why not? Would they join you in trying to get everyone in policy making positions back to reality? When people speak out on a podcast or otherwise on policy decisions, boosters, mandates, etc...the assumption is that this is a "wacky Conservative who doesn't understand pandemics and/or only cares about themselves". This is untrue...but unfortunately to wake more people up you may need to play the game and wake more MDs up who ascribe to your side of the aisle (sadly)...please reach out to those not just in San Fran but outside to encourage those like you with experience and a respected voice to reject these boosters for all...with just not enough evidence.
One could point out that neither felt the need to resign under the “bully Trump” administration…. This happened under the “conciliatory Biden “ administration. Arguably with more on the line under the prior admin (on the face of it, anyway) than the later. Food (and drug admin) for thought.
Well done walking the line of reason in an unreasonable time.
Would you mind if I shared this with my teens’ pediatrician, who is a UCLA Pediatrician advising that my twin male/female teens both get boosted?
1.Did those 2 new NEJM observational studies about the booster experience in Israel influence your thinking about risk:benefit ?
2. Do you think one's current antibody titer could be of use in assessing risk: benefit of booster?