Common sense. Also, if you had to devise with a way to make people even MORE skeptical that these vaccines are just a way to generate revenue for big pharma and kickbacks for the doctors and hospitals that push them... you would devise this policy!
I don't think that kickbacks to doctors for this is a thing or a motivation. They are doing it because they believe in it (without evidence) or because their tribe (the left) believes in it. That's pretty much it and a much stronger motivating factor than money.
3 years ago, my kiddo (then aged 5) had an atrial septal defect repaired via open heart surgery. We were offered a flu shot for him IN THE ICU, within hours of his emerging from the OR. Of course we declined, but when the discharge paperwork came, one of the instructions was “no vaccinations for 2 months.” 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
"Most obviously that the vaccine might not work well when you are still ill or make you worse." It doesn't work well when you are well. How could it work better when you are sick?
Yes Vinay, and thank you for writing about this. I have read a couple of articles recently about the policy practiced in some hospitals where children are immunized while under general anesthesia much to the parents’ dismay. Hospitals apparently hide under the cover of the form that they sign that gives them permission to do anything they deem medically necessary during surgery. Makes me sick. I think people need to write that they do not consent to any vaccines or immunizations administered while in the hospitals care without a specific discussion of the risks and benefits followed by a separate authorizing signature of consent for each product.
Yes, common sense has been thrown out the window. Who would think that was acceptable? Those wanting to make a buck? I was so pleased when you received your position and disheartened when you said adios. I have followed you throughout the covid years and highly respect your knowledge and thinking.
I never got on board with giving discharge vaccinations. Matter of fact, I rarely get on board with anything hospital administrators mandate. By God’s grace, I’m a good doctor. I love my patients, so it’s my responsibility to protect them from admin as well as getting lost (or unnecessarily subjected to) the medical-industrial complex.
I was in the hospital in November 2025 to have a cardiac pacemaker implanted. I must have been asked 4 different times whether I wanted a COVID and/or flu vaccine. No thanks. WTF does that have to do with a pacemaker? It's like today's constant pressure to upsell everything. I have to believe the hospitals are getting generously rewarded for COVID and flu vaccines.
These shinnigans have been going on for a long time. CMS asked hospitals to report staff flu vaxx uptake starting in 2011. In order to receive full medicare fees starting in 2015, high uptake was required. Same incentives were in effect for Covid until 2023. My fellow physicians need to wake up. The science is simply not there. What was it that Margaret Mead famously said about a "small group of thoughtful committed citizens...."?
During covid (11/21) my husband was hospitalized for 5 days for an illness that the hospital doctors were NEVER ABLE TO DIAGNOSE WHILE HE WAS "IN HOSPITAL". Even though they did NOT KNOW what was wrong, they pushed HARD(!) to get him vaxxed while he was there! My husband refused and the doctor became belligerent and the conversation ended with him (doctor) sarcastically saying "good luck". And this was the "hospitalist" overseeing his care while not knowing what was wrong. Up until that time neither of us had been vaxxed. This experience convinced both of us the staff of this hospital didn’t give a whit about possibly causing even more harm to my husband. Turns out my husband was finally diagnosed several months later with Myasthenia Gravis, a very serious autoimmune disease. Neither of us ever got "the vax" nor do we now get any vaccines after this incident.
This has been going on for decades, well before COVID. I remember the oncologists in my hospital system having to write orders on every immunocompromised cancer patient not to get a flu shot while in hospital--the cancers patients' immune systems were so compromised that they couldn't possibly profit from the vaccine by mounting an immune response. This was in response to CMS penalizing the hospital system financially if they didnt vaccinated a high target percentage (95% I think?).
Whenever you see a clinically idiotic policy look for a government--usually federal--policy behind it.
Standing orders for the flu vaccine have been in place for some time. This reflects the "Missed Opportunity" mindset that has long dominated vaccine policy. Don't miss any opportunity to vaccinate, because you might not get another chance. This policy assumes that the benefit of vaccinating while hospitalized outweighs any risk. That is an example of a policy based on an assumption being pulled out of their ass-umption. This is also behind the universal Hep B birth dose, also a standing order.
Dr. Prasad raises a legitimate question about vaccinating patients before hospital discharge, but there might be a bit of nuance to the silliness.
The important question is whether evidence from vaccinating hospitalized patients actually applies to elderly patients recovering from significant acute illness. This is the hospitalized group about which I worry most.
A small 2001 study of 51 hospitalized patients measured antibody responses after influenza vaccination. Responses were comparable to those in the outpatient group, and some measures were numerically favorable. However, the available report does not establish how many patients were acutely ill, how severely ill they were, or whether some were admitted for elective procedures. We cannot assume this sample represents frail elderly patients recovering from serious illness.
Giving a flu shot before discharge to a patient admitted for an elective procedure is much like offering one to someone there for a routine office visit. It is an opportunity we probably shouldn't let pass.
Giving a flu shot to an elderly patient recovering from a serious acute illness is another matter entirely. Will that patient mount an effective immune response? Is there any additional risk, or could an otherwise ordinary vaccine reaction complicate recovery? What about other populations admitted with serious acute illnesses?
I agree with Dr. Prasad: until you prove the benefits outweigh the harms, we should remain (very) skeptical.
James, Here is a question for researchers. I have been in the healthcare field for 50 years now. I received, mostly because my employment required it, flu shots for about 40 of those years. Now that I am retired and have seen many, many different flu vaccines, is there any evidence that receiving any additional flu vaccines will really benefit me? It is clear from some research that those with multiple past vaccines show a decreased immune response. So, that's why I don't get them any more.
Common sense. Also, if you had to devise with a way to make people even MORE skeptical that these vaccines are just a way to generate revenue for big pharma and kickbacks for the doctors and hospitals that push them... you would devise this policy!
I don't think that kickbacks to doctors for this is a thing or a motivation. They are doing it because they believe in it (without evidence) or because their tribe (the left) believes in it. That's pretty much it and a much stronger motivating factor than money.
My trust in the average doctor is negative.
More accurately for me, my trust in the healthcare system (barring some exceptions, such as trauma care) is negative.
Doctors are simply pawns in the system. They don't have much of an agency.
3 years ago, my kiddo (then aged 5) had an atrial septal defect repaired via open heart surgery. We were offered a flu shot for him IN THE ICU, within hours of his emerging from the OR. Of course we declined, but when the discharge paperwork came, one of the instructions was “no vaccinations for 2 months.” 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Wow!
That tells you right away that vaccination is religion.
You can never have too much religion.
"Most obviously that the vaccine might not work well when you are still ill or make you worse." It doesn't work well when you are well. How could it work better when you are sick?
Yes Vinay, and thank you for writing about this. I have read a couple of articles recently about the policy practiced in some hospitals where children are immunized while under general anesthesia much to the parents’ dismay. Hospitals apparently hide under the cover of the form that they sign that gives them permission to do anything they deem medically necessary during surgery. Makes me sick. I think people need to write that they do not consent to any vaccines or immunizations administered while in the hospitals care without a specific discussion of the risks and benefits followed by a separate authorizing signature of consent for each product.
Yes, common sense has been thrown out the window. Who would think that was acceptable? Those wanting to make a buck? I was so pleased when you received your position and disheartened when you said adios. I have followed you throughout the covid years and highly respect your knowledge and thinking.
I never got on board with giving discharge vaccinations. Matter of fact, I rarely get on board with anything hospital administrators mandate. By God’s grace, I’m a good doctor. I love my patients, so it’s my responsibility to protect them from admin as well as getting lost (or unnecessarily subjected to) the medical-industrial complex.
"my responsibility to protect them from admin"
perhaps a paramount duty Andrew;
I was in the hospital in November 2025 to have a cardiac pacemaker implanted. I must have been asked 4 different times whether I wanted a COVID and/or flu vaccine. No thanks. WTF does that have to do with a pacemaker? It's like today's constant pressure to upsell everything. I have to believe the hospitals are getting generously rewarded for COVID and flu vaccines.
These shinnigans have been going on for a long time. CMS asked hospitals to report staff flu vaxx uptake starting in 2011. In order to receive full medicare fees starting in 2015, high uptake was required. Same incentives were in effect for Covid until 2023. My fellow physicians need to wake up. The science is simply not there. What was it that Margaret Mead famously said about a "small group of thoughtful committed citizens...."?
During covid (11/21) my husband was hospitalized for 5 days for an illness that the hospital doctors were NEVER ABLE TO DIAGNOSE WHILE HE WAS "IN HOSPITAL". Even though they did NOT KNOW what was wrong, they pushed HARD(!) to get him vaxxed while he was there! My husband refused and the doctor became belligerent and the conversation ended with him (doctor) sarcastically saying "good luck". And this was the "hospitalist" overseeing his care while not knowing what was wrong. Up until that time neither of us had been vaxxed. This experience convinced both of us the staff of this hospital didn’t give a whit about possibly causing even more harm to my husband. Turns out my husband was finally diagnosed several months later with Myasthenia Gravis, a very serious autoimmune disease. Neither of us ever got "the vax" nor do we now get any vaccines after this incident.
well done to you both karen for standing firm; very difficult against overwhelming pressure
This is bonkers!
This has been going on for decades, well before COVID. I remember the oncologists in my hospital system having to write orders on every immunocompromised cancer patient not to get a flu shot while in hospital--the cancers patients' immune systems were so compromised that they couldn't possibly profit from the vaccine by mounting an immune response. This was in response to CMS penalizing the hospital system financially if they didnt vaccinated a high target percentage (95% I think?).
Whenever you see a clinically idiotic policy look for a government--usually federal--policy behind it.
Standing orders for the flu vaccine have been in place for some time. This reflects the "Missed Opportunity" mindset that has long dominated vaccine policy. Don't miss any opportunity to vaccinate, because you might not get another chance. This policy assumes that the benefit of vaccinating while hospitalized outweighs any risk. That is an example of a policy based on an assumption being pulled out of their ass-umption. This is also behind the universal Hep B birth dose, also a standing order.
Common sense, and these stupid shots often do far more harm than good.
Dr. Prasad raises a legitimate question about vaccinating patients before hospital discharge, but there might be a bit of nuance to the silliness.
The important question is whether evidence from vaccinating hospitalized patients actually applies to elderly patients recovering from significant acute illness. This is the hospitalized group about which I worry most.
A small 2001 study of 51 hospitalized patients measured antibody responses after influenza vaccination. Responses were comparable to those in the outpatient group, and some measures were numerically favorable. However, the available report does not establish how many patients were acutely ill, how severely ill they were, or whether some were admitted for elective procedures. We cannot assume this sample represents frail elderly patients recovering from serious illness.
Giving a flu shot before discharge to a patient admitted for an elective procedure is much like offering one to someone there for a routine office visit. It is an opportunity we probably shouldn't let pass.
Giving a flu shot to an elderly patient recovering from a serious acute illness is another matter entirely. Will that patient mount an effective immune response? Is there any additional risk, or could an otherwise ordinary vaccine reaction complicate recovery? What about other populations admitted with serious acute illnesses?
I agree with Dr. Prasad: until you prove the benefits outweigh the harms, we should remain (very) skeptical.
" It is an opportunity we probably shouldn't let pass."
Pssssst Alan; we need to let you in on a little secret; these flu jabs don't work under any circumstances; just a scam
James, Here is a question for researchers. I have been in the healthcare field for 50 years now. I received, mostly because my employment required it, flu shots for about 40 of those years. Now that I am retired and have seen many, many different flu vaccines, is there any evidence that receiving any additional flu vaccines will really benefit me? It is clear from some research that those with multiple past vaccines show a decreased immune response. So, that's why I don't get them any more.
Get vaccinated prior to discharge was a core measure at our hospital. ID privately said don't give it to us RNs.