Thank you, Vinay, your voice of reason and intellectual honesty is so needed in our culture today!!!
And good on them for making employees wear N95 masks if they must—definitely following the science!
And of course the articles had to point out In N Out’s ties to conservatism and valuing the Bible, as if that proved they were morally bad.
So disheartening to realize that such a high percentage of our population is still very much brainwashed by government and media lies (case in point, the Sound of Freedom movie).
The essential ethical principle folks is HEALTH FREEDOM. Forcing people NOT to wear masks when they think they're protecting themselves or their loved ones by doing so is no better than forcing them to wear masks when they DON'T want to. Let's please all try to promote HEALTH FREEDOM, and not "I'm right and you're wrong so now you have to do what I would do." Haven't we had enough of that?
Agreed. Though I do think there is an issue being able to hear employees with masks on. I think it's fair to say that if you wish to be customer facing, we ask you to remove the mask so our patrons can hear you. Same goes for teachers with kids. If the mask if preventing you from doing your job, then please take it off. Then it's not about someone's health freedom or whether or not they work, but about the ability to do the job.
To be honest, food prep is the one place that masking makes sense to me - and not for just Covid. If people are preparing food, I would prefer that they are not sniffling, dripping or coughing on the food. I might trust In-n-Out to give their workers sick leave, but not sure about all the fast food chains, and low-income workers can't afford to be unpaid. At the beginning of pandemic, I went through the drive-thru at Taco Bell, and the guy there was coughing and I just couldn't get over how stupid that was that he showed up to work (no mask either).
Terri, seems like a good idea, but there is overwhelming evidence that the sneezing coughing person will equally contaminate your food with or without the mask vis-à-vis virions. Masking is one of those things that people "think" should work -- but it demonstrably does not. There are a couple great studies where they divided ORs into masked and unmasked and did surgeries with all the nurses/doctors with/without colds and with all the patients and their various afflictions. Unsurprisingly, there was NO difference in either patient or provider illness -- none, zero, nada -- between the two groups. Masks are only there to make the wishful thinkers feel better...and that is not good for anyone. I believe that is Vinay's point.
That philosophy actually goes against what Dr. Prasad has been saying for 3 years. Natural exposure, the best way to get immunity. Yes it's gross. Yes it shouldn't happen. But it does and always will. It's on the doorknob into your office where you touched and then rubbed your eye. You walk down the street right into the floating virus cells from the guy who coughed 10 feet in front of you. I live by the 5 second rule and actually get sick enough to stay in bed every 3-4 years.
" Natural exposure, the best way to get immunity. "
Yes, but that a question of vaccine vs. natural immunity. Not relevant here.
Also, exposure outside is very low due to particles floating off.
Either we keep saying "Keep sick home" and ask for some level of prevention or we tell people to go into work sick and whatever happens happens (which I've known people to do even with Covid and Strep throat). We could also ask people to stop washing their hands, stop wearing hats to prevent hair in the food, etc.
California was not listed due to CA law that forbids this for masking. CA WANTS their population to have such fear induced psychosis that it prevents businesses from prohibiting wearing masks in their workplaces.
In California, the company should say that it "encourages" employees to avoid wearing a mask. Just as many companies encourage their employees to dress nicely when interfacing with customers.
Yes. Totally logical. In n out has always stressed customer service and their employees are trained to smile and be pleasant while interacting with customers. Masks interfere with this philosophy.
I let people decide, although seeing masked individuals makes me cringe inside, ultimately it’s their choice. Maybe they are covering pimples (masks make them worse) or bad breath or red stained teethe from chewing betelnut. The public health policy has no logic but perhaps personal decisions based on a myriad of reasons does.
There are also people who found that the masks reduced their allergies while outside - which makes sense - they're designed to filter particles, especially dust.
I have definitely worn a mask out shopping on a really bad acne day. The masks don't cause nearly as much acne as my own hormones do!
I also wear a mask when I know I'm sick and have to run errands anyways (got Covid while travelling and alone - needed meds and food). A lot of Vinay's argument is about the (mostly healthy) population wearing masks. If you're actively sick, coughing, sneezing, even if a mask only reduces your particle spread by 50%, that's still 50%.
Looks to me like they’re just following OSHS rules:
“What does OSHA’s Respiratory Protection Standard require?
When surgical N95 masks are required for employee safety, along with providing the masks, the employer must have a written respiratory protection program that addresses:
Medical evaluation/clearance to determine if users are physically fit to wear a respirator”
I see that same, disturbing cultural shift amongst younger millennials and gen z'ers, too...masking to avoid social interaction. They also walk around with ear buds in all the time.
Anywho, I hope hospitals will catch on to the fast food chains who are jumping on board with this. Who knew we'd live in a day where healthcare would take cues from burger joints...
Thank you, Vinay, your voice of reason and intellectual honesty is so needed in our culture today!!!
And good on them for making employees wear N95 masks if they must—definitely following the science!
And of course the articles had to point out In N Out’s ties to conservatism and valuing the Bible, as if that proved they were morally bad.
So disheartening to realize that such a high percentage of our population is still very much brainwashed by government and media lies (case in point, the Sound of Freedom movie).
Leaders have to lead. It is uncomfortable and scary, but I'm encouraged to see companies start to rise up and lead.
Just read that about In-N-Out Burger. Couldn’t agree more
The essential ethical principle folks is HEALTH FREEDOM. Forcing people NOT to wear masks when they think they're protecting themselves or their loved ones by doing so is no better than forcing them to wear masks when they DON'T want to. Let's please all try to promote HEALTH FREEDOM, and not "I'm right and you're wrong so now you have to do what I would do." Haven't we had enough of that?
Agreed. Though I do think there is an issue being able to hear employees with masks on. I think it's fair to say that if you wish to be customer facing, we ask you to remove the mask so our patrons can hear you. Same goes for teachers with kids. If the mask if preventing you from doing your job, then please take it off. Then it's not about someone's health freedom or whether or not they work, but about the ability to do the job.
Amen!
To be honest, food prep is the one place that masking makes sense to me - and not for just Covid. If people are preparing food, I would prefer that they are not sniffling, dripping or coughing on the food. I might trust In-n-Out to give their workers sick leave, but not sure about all the fast food chains, and low-income workers can't afford to be unpaid. At the beginning of pandemic, I went through the drive-thru at Taco Bell, and the guy there was coughing and I just couldn't get over how stupid that was that he showed up to work (no mask either).
Terri, seems like a good idea, but there is overwhelming evidence that the sneezing coughing person will equally contaminate your food with or without the mask vis-à-vis virions. Masking is one of those things that people "think" should work -- but it demonstrably does not. There are a couple great studies where they divided ORs into masked and unmasked and did surgeries with all the nurses/doctors with/without colds and with all the patients and their various afflictions. Unsurprisingly, there was NO difference in either patient or provider illness -- none, zero, nada -- between the two groups. Masks are only there to make the wishful thinkers feel better...and that is not good for anyone. I believe that is Vinay's point.
Honestly, I just want them to wash their hands after going to the restroom. I'm not worried about eating a respiratory virus.
exactly!
That philosophy actually goes against what Dr. Prasad has been saying for 3 years. Natural exposure, the best way to get immunity. Yes it's gross. Yes it shouldn't happen. But it does and always will. It's on the doorknob into your office where you touched and then rubbed your eye. You walk down the street right into the floating virus cells from the guy who coughed 10 feet in front of you. I live by the 5 second rule and actually get sick enough to stay in bed every 3-4 years.
" Natural exposure, the best way to get immunity. "
Yes, but that a question of vaccine vs. natural immunity. Not relevant here.
Also, exposure outside is very low due to particles floating off.
Either we keep saying "Keep sick home" and ask for some level of prevention or we tell people to go into work sick and whatever happens happens (which I've known people to do even with Covid and Strep throat). We could also ask people to stop washing their hands, stop wearing hats to prevent hair in the food, etc.
Even worse - hair in my food. Instant vomit. It’s a very rare day that I get fast food anymore.
California was not listed due to CA law that forbids this for masking. CA WANTS their population to have such fear induced psychosis that it prevents businesses from prohibiting wearing masks in their workplaces.
In California, the company should say that it "encourages" employees to avoid wearing a mask. Just as many companies encourage their employees to dress nicely when interfacing with customers.
Yes. Totally logical. In n out has always stressed customer service and their employees are trained to smile and be pleasant while interacting with customers. Masks interfere with this philosophy.
I let people decide, although seeing masked individuals makes me cringe inside, ultimately it’s their choice. Maybe they are covering pimples (masks make them worse) or bad breath or red stained teethe from chewing betelnut. The public health policy has no logic but perhaps personal decisions based on a myriad of reasons does.
There are also people who found that the masks reduced their allergies while outside - which makes sense - they're designed to filter particles, especially dust.
I have definitely worn a mask out shopping on a really bad acne day. The masks don't cause nearly as much acne as my own hormones do!
I also wear a mask when I know I'm sick and have to run errands anyways (got Covid while travelling and alone - needed meds and food). A lot of Vinay's argument is about the (mostly healthy) population wearing masks. If you're actively sick, coughing, sneezing, even if a mask only reduces your particle spread by 50%, that's still 50%.
Christians and conservatives are banned. That's the bottom line.
Looks to me like they’re just following OSHS rules:
“What does OSHA’s Respiratory Protection Standard require?
When surgical N95 masks are required for employee safety, along with providing the masks, the employer must have a written respiratory protection program that addresses:
Medical evaluation/clearance to determine if users are physically fit to wear a respirator”
https://oshareview.com/2020/04/osha-requirements-for-occupational-use-of-n95-respirators-in-healthcare/
❤️❤️❤️
I really had to resist saying SHUT THE F UP DONNY! IYKYK
I see that same, disturbing cultural shift amongst younger millennials and gen z'ers, too...masking to avoid social interaction. They also walk around with ear buds in all the time.
Anywho, I hope hospitals will catch on to the fast food chains who are jumping on board with this. Who knew we'd live in a day where healthcare would take cues from burger joints...
Speaking of health freedom: in Minnesota, they have removed custody of a child because his parents didn't want to continue chemo after he's in remission. Does this happen elsewhere? https://www.startribune.com/wright-county-minnesota-retains-custody-of-cancer-stricken-child-whose-parents-oppose-chemo/600291444/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=evening_update