Vinay, You missed the entire reason that the spikeshots are on the children's schedule -- This is the only way you get complete liability protection. If you take if off the children's schedule, than all of the adults harmed by the shot (and there are thousands, perhaps millions) will be able to sue the pharma's like they can do with any other drug. This will be a tsunami unlike those never seen before.
The shots are on the children's schedule not because anyone (even at CDC) thought they had any value. (My friends at CDC tell me everyone has always known that). They are there to protect pharma from suits from non-child recipients.
This is why they have not already been removed even by people like RFK Jr. who knows they should be. The economic and political ramifications are profound.
This is true, and I thought about discussing it, but even if they do not change the 2029 date (which many believe they will) for the "end" of the pandemic, a parting gift from the Biden administration, it will end in several years...and then we fall back on the Children's schedule issue. These folks have long horizons -- they will move heaven and earth to keep this on the children's schedule because PREP is evanescent. Both acts should be buried and never see the light of day again.
What is the evidence that ANY group received a net benefit from any of the covid vaxxes? I haven't seen any convincing, methodologically sound evidence. Please share if you have.
I love Vinay, but he keeps saying the Covid vax was indeed helpful for older, or otherwise compromised folks. I, too would like to see the sound evidence that proves that.
I’ll join you on this one. I’d love to read Vinay approved studies on net benefit in certain groups. I’m thankful every day that I followed my rule regarding medicine which is to not put in my body any new product until it has been out for several years at least and been proven to my satisfaction to benefit me, and therefore didn’t get the shot. As time passes more and more negative health implications are revealed, and I think we’ve only begun to see the extent of the damage this has caused, especially to our young people.
The only evidence we have from a controlled study came from Pfizer's own trial in which 23% more people died (from all causes) in the mRNA vaccine group than in the control group.
My in laws, both in their late 80’s, got the initial 2 vaccines. Both had covid with few symptoms. Compare to a few years earlier when they both had the flu shot, both got flu, and both ended up in the hospital. By the way FIL has diabetes and is overweight! He is now 91!!! They declined any more covid shots, even thought docs push them, but I think they both still take flu shots. Their best friend, obese, in nursing home for years, has had covid at least twice & is still kicking. Weird.
Even in the elderly, most seroprevalence based estimates of IFR in the over-70 population never exceeded single digit percentages. So you knowing a handful of octogenarians who survived COVID with or without vaccination really isn't that weird, probabilistically speaking. Let's say the IFR in this group is even as high as 10%. The chances of all of a random sample of 3 80-year olds surviving infection is 0.9^3 or ~73%.
When the CDC stopped publishing the case fatality rate of Covid early in the pandemic, I knew it had become a political disease. The best dialogue would be how to remove politics from science and medicine. Everyone should agree that the truth and facts are the best for the majority of people.
"I was disappointed to read this quote by Paul Offit, whom I generally respect."
Why would you generally respect a guy who says that children can safely take 10,000 vaccines? Despite multiple suggestions from people, Offit has neither given 10,000 shots to his children or to himself.
Should never had been approved for EUA for kids. If I remember correctly I believe the use in the toddler range was approved using “non inferior antibodies compared to older teens and young adults”. REALLY, that was where the goal post was lowered to!!! That with the AAP remaining mute when it was added it to the childhood vaccine schedule, along with their asinine mask policy stating there was no effect on speech development, interpreting facial expression, and no harm on socialization skills prompted my immediate resignation as a fellow. The mRNA vaccine using lipidnanoparticles (LNP)as a vector was brilliant bioengineering, but knowing from large primate studies that LNPs intramuscularly injected had a 10 percent tissue trafficking throughout the body meant a clear determination of risk/benefit needed to be established. By late 2020 and early 2021 we had a clear picture of who was having the worst outcomes from Covid-19 and it certainly was not healthy children. My personal take, the one size fits all, safe and effective policy of the Biden administration coupled with the virtue signaling of liberals throwing risk benefit under the bus will go down as the largest malpractice fiasco in human history. I am hopeful Drs Monarez and Makary will lead the CDC and FDA down a different path.
The real question is when will people wake up and see that the entrenched politician-scientists don't care what RFK Jr does, they're just going to oppose it no matter what. At that point, no one will listen to them anymore.
I can't believe that there is even pushback on the artificial colors. Once California and another state have banned something, does anyone really expect the manufacturers to keep it going? Why would you want two supply systems, two recipes?
Mr. Proffit has rarely been on the side of the kids. But it's an interesting way to issue a warning. As if all the vaccines are the same, and we're ok dropping one, but don't do anymore!
This is one of the problems surrounding vaccine discussions - no acknowledgment that they are different products, different treatments, different diseases.
It is about time that the corruption at the NIH FDA and all those entities comes to a stop as it has hurt millions. But don’t expect everyone to come to their senses, it’s difficult to do a mea culpa and realized you have been lied and betrayed for so long
Agree this course correction is needed and will help reestablish public credibility. There is no scientific or public health rationale for continued C19 shots for healthy children, and it dilutes the credibility of the schedule for other more important vaccines. One (weak) argument we will hear is that placement on the childhood schedule guarantees zero cost coverage. That argument should not prevail.
Zero cost coverage of poison seems like the worst way to go...
Yeah... let's agree whether it's even useful first, then we'll talk about how to cover it.
And honestly, the only people I've seen supporting childhood C19 vaccines are super-educated people (ironically). They don't need free vaccines. Make them pay for it.
Can we talk about quarantine policies now? A close relative recently had surgery and was discharged to inpatient rehab. A few days into her stay at the inpatient facility, she developed respiratory symptoms and tested positive for corona. She was "quarantined" for 10 days, which meant that (1) no doctor would see her, at all, and (2) she did not get PT, at all. Family members were allowed to visit, and personal care aides entered her room for bathroom purposes. A few days after her quarantine ended, the co-pay kicked in (insurance covered 100% for the first two weeks, and a reduced percentage after that), so she went home, incredibly weak and (as she discovered from a CT scan during an ER trip a day after discharge) she still had pneumonia.
What do you say, Dr. Prasad? Does "quarantining" patients in rehab facilities make sense when the same HVAC system serves the entire building? And when the insurance (and healing) clock is ticking for inpatient PT?
Was she at a rehab or at a skilled nursing facility?
My dad was in a similar situation, *minus* the Covid. Hip fracture, surgery, then to a skilled nursing care. 1 week after the fall, he was trying to walk around with a walker and was told to cut-it-out for liability reasons. I arrived 2 weeks later, he could move himself between bed and wheelchair and wheel himself around. I didn't see him walkering anymore. Then back to hospital due to low-iron. By the time he got out the second time, he could barely move from bed to wheelchair - needed help - no PT in the hospital. Then to a real rehab where he managed to get discharged and was barely able to walker again.
When my 5yo got spinal surgery, they tried to kick us out a soon as possible (3 days???) because "She'll recover better at home." True enough she was walking around within a couple of days.
My conclusion is that all of these places are more interested in keeping you bedbound for liability reasons than having you get better at all. What I've learned is that if you ever want to recover, come home as soon as you can, and get them to do home PT asap.
Actual rehab, and during the few days before testing positive for corona, she had her PT in a really nice gym. I'll bwt the liability fears were why the rehab aides forced her to use a bedpan, though, after she had been moving to the restroom (assisted) in the hospital. And they wonder why healthcare costs are so high and Americans are still so sick!
I'm glad they sent her to actual rehab. That's interesting about the bedpan - getting to the bathroom is good exercise. Why deny people that?
I found out at the second hospital stay that they don't normally send people my father's age to rehab because they think they won't do the work.
I didn't know the difference until my mom's OT asked about my dad, and when she told him where he was, the first thing the guy said was "You have the right to leave. You don't have to stay there. You don't have to escape, he can just check himself out." The chain has a bad rep too apparently.
But he said that in skilled nursing they only have to do 1/2 hour of PT and get paid just for the patient being there. In Rehab, they only get paid for OT/PT so they do 3 hours to get their full money.
During the second hospital stay, I was like "Rehab or he's coming home, and we'll deal." It would've been dicey at home because he'd lost so much mobility, but I'm pretty sure he'd never had made it home if he'd gone back to skilled nursing. He'd have been bedbound for life.
I believe Medicare recipients are entitled to rehab *just for maintenance* (cf. the Jimmo case) but medicine is rife with ageism, and I've seen some crummy stuff happen. Good for you sticking up for your dad. People are individuals, and shouldn't be treated as incapable or lazy because of demographics.
A lot of medicine is like that. Taking the Bradley childbirth class many years ago taught me to ask questions. I read JAMA articles about "shared decision-making," etc., and none of it squares with the real world. Of course, medicine is not unique in that respect.
The T Rex has escaped and is on the prow. RFK Jr. is trying to put it back where it belongs. With any luck T Rex will eat Offit for lunch. We'll all be better off then.
Offit deserves no respect. zero! if he is not stopped, he will continue to harm children. Offit is unhinged. He’s a deranged ideologue. get him off any vax committee. Now
Even if this is the only thing accomplished by HHS under RFK Jr., I will be overjoyed! It is positively criminal that this vaccine was pushed onto children when the benefits absolutely did not outweigh the risk of harm to that population, and even WORSE when they had the audacity to continue to recommend it even after the pandemic ended!!
Vinay, You missed the entire reason that the spikeshots are on the children's schedule -- This is the only way you get complete liability protection. If you take if off the children's schedule, than all of the adults harmed by the shot (and there are thousands, perhaps millions) will be able to sue the pharma's like they can do with any other drug. This will be a tsunami unlike those never seen before.
The shots are on the children's schedule not because anyone (even at CDC) thought they had any value. (My friends at CDC tell me everyone has always known that). They are there to protect pharma from suits from non-child recipients.
This is why they have not already been removed even by people like RFK Jr. who knows they should be. The economic and political ramifications are profound.
Yes, a critical point that is too often overlooked.
But they already get complete protection from the PREP Act. ALL Emergency Use-Authorized treatments do.
This is true, and I thought about discussing it, but even if they do not change the 2029 date (which many believe they will) for the "end" of the pandemic, a parting gift from the Biden administration, it will end in several years...and then we fall back on the Children's schedule issue. These folks have long horizons -- they will move heaven and earth to keep this on the children's schedule because PREP is evanescent. Both acts should be buried and never see the light of day again.
What is the evidence that ANY group received a net benefit from any of the covid vaxxes? I haven't seen any convincing, methodologically sound evidence. Please share if you have.
I love Vinay, but he keeps saying the Covid vax was indeed helpful for older, or otherwise compromised folks. I, too would like to see the sound evidence that proves that.
It may have just killed the ones that would've died from Covid..... We'll never know.
I’ll join you on this one. I’d love to read Vinay approved studies on net benefit in certain groups. I’m thankful every day that I followed my rule regarding medicine which is to not put in my body any new product until it has been out for several years at least and been proven to my satisfaction to benefit me, and therefore didn’t get the shot. As time passes more and more negative health implications are revealed, and I think we’ve only begun to see the extent of the damage this has caused, especially to our young people.
The only evidence we have from a controlled study came from Pfizer's own trial in which 23% more people died (from all causes) in the mRNA vaccine group than in the control group.
My in laws, both in their late 80’s, got the initial 2 vaccines. Both had covid with few symptoms. Compare to a few years earlier when they both had the flu shot, both got flu, and both ended up in the hospital. By the way FIL has diabetes and is overweight! He is now 91!!! They declined any more covid shots, even thought docs push them, but I think they both still take flu shots. Their best friend, obese, in nursing home for years, has had covid at least twice & is still kicking. Weird.
Even in the elderly, most seroprevalence based estimates of IFR in the over-70 population never exceeded single digit percentages. So you knowing a handful of octogenarians who survived COVID with or without vaccination really isn't that weird, probabilistically speaking. Let's say the IFR in this group is even as high as 10%. The chances of all of a random sample of 3 80-year olds surviving infection is 0.9^3 or ~73%.
When the CDC stopped publishing the case fatality rate of Covid early in the pandemic, I knew it had become a political disease. The best dialogue would be how to remove politics from science and medicine. Everyone should agree that the truth and facts are the best for the majority of people.
I’m amazed by my fellow physicians’ reluctance to admit that they erred… I do this on a regular basis!
"I was disappointed to read this quote by Paul Offit, whom I generally respect."
Why would you generally respect a guy who says that children can safely take 10,000 vaccines? Despite multiple suggestions from people, Offit has neither given 10,000 shots to his children or to himself.
Should never had been approved for EUA for kids. If I remember correctly I believe the use in the toddler range was approved using “non inferior antibodies compared to older teens and young adults”. REALLY, that was where the goal post was lowered to!!! That with the AAP remaining mute when it was added it to the childhood vaccine schedule, along with their asinine mask policy stating there was no effect on speech development, interpreting facial expression, and no harm on socialization skills prompted my immediate resignation as a fellow. The mRNA vaccine using lipidnanoparticles (LNP)as a vector was brilliant bioengineering, but knowing from large primate studies that LNPs intramuscularly injected had a 10 percent tissue trafficking throughout the body meant a clear determination of risk/benefit needed to be established. By late 2020 and early 2021 we had a clear picture of who was having the worst outcomes from Covid-19 and it certainly was not healthy children. My personal take, the one size fits all, safe and effective policy of the Biden administration coupled with the virtue signaling of liberals throwing risk benefit under the bus will go down as the largest malpractice fiasco in human history. I am hopeful Drs Monarez and Makary will lead the CDC and FDA down a different path.
The real question is when will people wake up and see that the entrenched politician-scientists don't care what RFK Jr does, they're just going to oppose it no matter what. At that point, no one will listen to them anymore.
I can't believe that there is even pushback on the artificial colors. Once California and another state have banned something, does anyone really expect the manufacturers to keep it going? Why would you want two supply systems, two recipes?
Mr. Proffit has rarely been on the side of the kids. But it's an interesting way to issue a warning. As if all the vaccines are the same, and we're ok dropping one, but don't do anymore!
This is one of the problems surrounding vaccine discussions - no acknowledgment that they are different products, different treatments, different diseases.
It is about time that the corruption at the NIH FDA and all those entities comes to a stop as it has hurt millions. But don’t expect everyone to come to their senses, it’s difficult to do a mea culpa and realized you have been lied and betrayed for so long
I'm flabbergasted that Paul Offit is now taking this position. Remember when he voted against the booster because of "uncomfortably scant" evidence of efficacy? https://odysee.com/@ddswaterloo100:0/Dr.-Paul-Offit-The-Only-Reason-I-Voted-NO-For-The-Vaccine-Is:d?t=%7Bseek_to_second_number%7D
Funny, he doesn't seem to understand the same principal here...
Agree this course correction is needed and will help reestablish public credibility. There is no scientific or public health rationale for continued C19 shots for healthy children, and it dilutes the credibility of the schedule for other more important vaccines. One (weak) argument we will hear is that placement on the childhood schedule guarantees zero cost coverage. That argument should not prevail.
Zero cost coverage of poison seems like the worst way to go...
Yeah... let's agree whether it's even useful first, then we'll talk about how to cover it.
And honestly, the only people I've seen supporting childhood C19 vaccines are super-educated people (ironically). They don't need free vaccines. Make them pay for it.
Can we talk about quarantine policies now? A close relative recently had surgery and was discharged to inpatient rehab. A few days into her stay at the inpatient facility, she developed respiratory symptoms and tested positive for corona. She was "quarantined" for 10 days, which meant that (1) no doctor would see her, at all, and (2) she did not get PT, at all. Family members were allowed to visit, and personal care aides entered her room for bathroom purposes. A few days after her quarantine ended, the co-pay kicked in (insurance covered 100% for the first two weeks, and a reduced percentage after that), so she went home, incredibly weak and (as she discovered from a CT scan during an ER trip a day after discharge) she still had pneumonia.
What do you say, Dr. Prasad? Does "quarantining" patients in rehab facilities make sense when the same HVAC system serves the entire building? And when the insurance (and healing) clock is ticking for inpatient PT?
Was she at a rehab or at a skilled nursing facility?
My dad was in a similar situation, *minus* the Covid. Hip fracture, surgery, then to a skilled nursing care. 1 week after the fall, he was trying to walk around with a walker and was told to cut-it-out for liability reasons. I arrived 2 weeks later, he could move himself between bed and wheelchair and wheel himself around. I didn't see him walkering anymore. Then back to hospital due to low-iron. By the time he got out the second time, he could barely move from bed to wheelchair - needed help - no PT in the hospital. Then to a real rehab where he managed to get discharged and was barely able to walker again.
When my 5yo got spinal surgery, they tried to kick us out a soon as possible (3 days???) because "She'll recover better at home." True enough she was walking around within a couple of days.
My conclusion is that all of these places are more interested in keeping you bedbound for liability reasons than having you get better at all. What I've learned is that if you ever want to recover, come home as soon as you can, and get them to do home PT asap.
Actual rehab, and during the few days before testing positive for corona, she had her PT in a really nice gym. I'll bwt the liability fears were why the rehab aides forced her to use a bedpan, though, after she had been moving to the restroom (assisted) in the hospital. And they wonder why healthcare costs are so high and Americans are still so sick!
I'm glad they sent her to actual rehab. That's interesting about the bedpan - getting to the bathroom is good exercise. Why deny people that?
I found out at the second hospital stay that they don't normally send people my father's age to rehab because they think they won't do the work.
I didn't know the difference until my mom's OT asked about my dad, and when she told him where he was, the first thing the guy said was "You have the right to leave. You don't have to stay there. You don't have to escape, he can just check himself out." The chain has a bad rep too apparently.
But he said that in skilled nursing they only have to do 1/2 hour of PT and get paid just for the patient being there. In Rehab, they only get paid for OT/PT so they do 3 hours to get their full money.
During the second hospital stay, I was like "Rehab or he's coming home, and we'll deal." It would've been dicey at home because he'd lost so much mobility, but I'm pretty sure he'd never had made it home if he'd gone back to skilled nursing. He'd have been bedbound for life.
I believe Medicare recipients are entitled to rehab *just for maintenance* (cf. the Jimmo case) but medicine is rife with ageism, and I've seen some crummy stuff happen. Good for you sticking up for your dad. People are individuals, and shouldn't be treated as incapable or lazy because of demographics.
It just scares me that we didn't even know what we didn't know :( If that OT hadn't asked, we'd never had known.
A lot of medicine is like that. Taking the Bradley childbirth class many years ago taught me to ask questions. I read JAMA articles about "shared decision-making," etc., and none of it squares with the real world. Of course, medicine is not unique in that respect.
The T Rex has escaped and is on the prow. RFK Jr. is trying to put it back where it belongs. With any luck T Rex will eat Offit for lunch. We'll all be better off then.
Covid jab was and is poison. There is no credible data showing otherwise. period.
Offit deserves no respect. zero! if he is not stopped, he will continue to harm children. Offit is unhinged. He’s a deranged ideologue. get him off any vax committee. Now
Even if this is the only thing accomplished by HHS under RFK Jr., I will be overjoyed! It is positively criminal that this vaccine was pushed onto children when the benefits absolutely did not outweigh the risk of harm to that population, and even WORSE when they had the audacity to continue to recommend it even after the pandemic ended!!