so maddening to hear these arguments - was maddening then and even more so now.
When my colleagues were pushing for city-wide mandates, after losing the argument on transmission, which I clearly showed, they also defaulted to "filling the hospitals". I pointed out that the hospitals were never filled in 2020 and would not be now (2021), and pointed to the HHS dashboard. They said it would be worse, so then I proposed (not seriously) to mandate for those over 60 only, since those were the only ones that could possibly fill the hospitals... silence and cancellation followed next.
Unbelievable that intelligent people had this debate in 2020/2021 even most astonishing to have this now... they should be apologizing for their lapse in judgement and moral compass
... and don't get me started on vax for young people... the massive net harm as VP notes
It was a psy op. I don’t watch any prime time tv or listen to public radio but during those years I had the sense that I was doing something illegal by remaining unvaxxed. Whenever I would try to do research on mortality rates or statistics from non vaxxing countries I would be shunted off to a CDC website that then lectured me on how dangerous misinformation was. Then it proceeded to lecture me on the safety and efficacy of the shots and the importance of refreshing those injections so I could live a normal healthy life protecting myself and those around me. If I entered myocarditis, serology, natural immunity, I got the same treatment. I can’t imagine what it was like for physicians. I would assume if you tried to question or think outside the box you would be hit with protocol blah blah blah. Looking from outside medicine anybody that even questioned the dogma of the CDC was mocked and silenced. I was always amazed at what Vinay could get away with.
>> How many people got vaccinated in the US just because of the Biden mandates? The answer is shockingly low. Btw 1 to 4% by my estimates. You can perform discontinuity to prove this to yourself.
How are you arriving at this?? The country had a metaphorical gun to our head of being legally unpersoned, which plenty of caring souls would have very much liked to have been a literal gun.
Only 1-4% of those vaccinated did so because of unprecedented coercion and threats?
As a clinical allergist/immunologist I have wondered if intradermal as opposed to intramuscular mrna would be safer and more efficacious. Small studies are ongoing but as Dr. Prasad has pointed out many times in the past, the methodology of booster studies were so flawed as much of the med literature was steered by the narrative of a novel zoonosis spill over virus. Influenza vaccines were approved to give intradermally in 2014 but removed from market in 2018 as pharmacies cannot get away from the intramuscular delivery. With IM delivery you have S spike associated with myocytes which brings the molecular mimicry to the myocardium. A Tragedy begun in the name of pandemic preparedness at UNC Chapel Hill with Dr. Baric and Shileng manipulating corona genomics for decades now. A 2014 NPR reporter asked Baric if he was making dangerous viruses in his lab. His response was if you are a mouse. Then he lied and said mice dont sneeze as if transmission from mouse to human was impossible. A real shame for the NIAID cover up.
Itradermally general better tolerated since vessels are smaller in cutaneous and less likely to get intravascular dosing. This is not to say that smallpox vaccinations which are given intradermally in the skin thus leaving g the mark on the skin is not completely side effect free either. BCG vaccine is the world’s most luminous vaccine given and it is also given intradermally. In general intradermal vaccines are considered less reactive, genetic and more immuno genetic because of how antigen presentation takes place with dendritic cells that are more numerous in the skin. You can have an auto immune reaction to an applied vaccine, but the risk is lower than intramuscular.
Nicely done, Vinay. However, I have seen no evidence of a 5% protective factor, much less 50%. So this makes that part of the analysis even more compelling. Why would you choose 50%? There is general agreement that there is no impact on transmission or infectivity. Other than that, we salute you. Keep it up. People are idiots...same people with TDS have Covidmania as near as I can tell. They are all still masking, too. Another idiocy.
I agree with Guttermouth and Mary Miller...How many people got vaccinated in the US just because of the Biden mandates? The answer is shockingly low. Btw 1 to 4% by my estimates."...hell I told my employees if I was mandated (because I work in healthcare and take medicare monies, thankfully I was not "mandated" aka forced) that I would close my PT clinic. Vinay is way out of touch with the reality of where people were at. People could not go to work, school, travel, shopping! It was a forced mandate against people's medical will and freedom to choose my body/my choice. Unfortunately, many women couldn't regulate themselves enough to fight for my body/my choice. Ugh. They just laid down and started telling you that you were a bad person for not taking the vax.
I know multiple people with fake vaccination records. I had opportunity to get one myself but felt it was better to be excluded than falsely included - I objected to the mandates on principle even if I had the means to bypass them. I actually don’t think the actual vaccination rate is as high as estimated.
Well if that's true that it's not as high as estimated, then this vax is really bad killing and harming people. Do the math on that! If we.take out say 20% of those vaxxed out of the data, then deaths and injury are worse than we already know. That's depressing and dark.
i flew within the usa in summer & fall of 2020, a few times in '21 & '22 - remain unjabbed. there was never a vax mandate to travel in USA or even externally (to most countries). if you were a us citizen returning from abroad you needed a neg test, but no shot mandate.
shot mandates for patrons of businesses were only implemented in some cites / the vaccine passes (which we were told were the ideas of only conspiracy theorists before their short life) did commence in philly, NYC and a few other cites. however there were businesses in those cities which resisted, then the dam broke on the 'does not block transmission' fact which made vax passports totally obsolete other than being a scarlet letter for those who enforced or kowtowed to the tyranny
I know people who worked for the Steamship Authority (here where I live) or were let go, literally. So it did happen in certain areas and they made it hard to live unvaccinated in this country.
ty for sharing. i know many public school teachers who didnt want it but got it to avoid the risk of being fired...needless to say they are not happy as this plays out and the deceit which was used with the coercion is coming to light
I don't care how many "talks" there are, there is no way I am ever using any vaccine or mRNA poison. And unless it is a dire emergency, no big pharma drugs either. I have not seen anything significant that proves to me that taking drugs is better or healthier than not taking them. Can my doctor honestly answer that question? No, as he spends his time being baffled more often than not.
You must understand that all those reactions your body has, some noticed and some not, is your body trying to reject drug poisons. Often, the list of possible negative reactions is more painful/harmful than the disease or illness your are trying to treat.
My understanding was that infants and toddlers never got symptomatic polio. Exposure at that early age provided lifelong protection. but when the environment got so cleaned up (no horse poop in the streets, etc) the exposure dropped and they were vulnerable to 'late' exposure on more naive immune systems. Recent polio vaccination experience in India resulted in hundreds of thousands of cases, renamed Non-polio Acute Flaccid Paralysis.
Sometimes I wonder if eradication goals are misguided, setting humanity up for future outbreaks, given that military complexes in many nations cannot help themselves in playing around with such pathogens.
Eradication saves lots of lives so I think it's a good goal. But I get your point. If a resurgence is plausible, we should be prepared. We should not try to eliminate all challenges to the immune system -- as so many people, especially parents, seem to do today -- and should work on building our immune systems. Apart from standard good health practices, that could include recent discoveries of ways to rejuvenate the immune system.
That response has bee proven idiotic a million times. 🥴 My father-in-law used that and he's now dead from turbo cancer. I've been saying for 3 years...you can't fix stupid, but you can vaccinate it!
“Incorrect. The Moderna randomized study shows an imbalance in severe disease, and this is highly statistically and clinically persuasive.”
From Pfizer study:
15 deaths vaccine arm, 14 deaths placebo arm. No mention of hospitalizations.
1 severe covid event in vaccine arm, 30 in placebo arm: 30 - 1 = 29 severe events reduced by the vaccine. 262 severe adverse reactions in the vaccine arm, 150 in the placebo arm: 262 – 150 = 112 severe events increased by the vaccine. 3.86 more severe events caused by the vaccine than reduced by the vaccine.
If the vaccines are assumed to save lives due to reduction in severe disease, why does not the same logic apply to severe reactions caused by vaccine. The vaccines would have killed 3.86 lives more than they saved.
“Combined, the mRNA vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated (95 % CI 2.1 to 22.9); risk ratio 1.43 (95 % CI 1.07 to 1.92).”
Serious is much worse than severe. Serious means death, near death, disability, hospitalization.
Vaccine benefit: (may have worn off quicky after Covid19 mutations)
No reduction in death or hospitalization.
1 severe event per 776 vaccinated reduced by the vaccine
Vaccine harm:
1 severe event per 201 vaccinated caused by the vaccine
1 serious event per 800 vaccinated caused by the vaccine
"Now does an increase in vaccination by 1 to 4% change transmission dynamics, when the vaccine has a 50% reduction in transmission that fades to 0% or perhaps even negative vaccine effectiveness at 4 months? The answer is absolutely not. As such it did nothing to shield hospitals from the overflow that they never had anyway in third quarter 2021."
And the people who had the most pressure were the healthcare workers, many of whom are early-retired now. So even worse damage to the healthcare system, and damage that is still ongoing.
Vinay, I would like to know if there are any studies that show the incidence and severity of myocarditis among those who get Covid AND have the Covid vax/boosters. It seems that would be a double-whammy.
What is the actual reduction in transmission for those with the vaccine? Was that ever actually measured, or are we just assuming 50% decreasing to 0 after four month for the sake of argument?
Jonathan is still way ahead of you. You forgot about the negative effectiveness of the vaccines for the first 10 days as well as after 12-16 weeks. The vaccine’s effectiveness against transmission never reached 50% either. You are making progress. Keep thinking and keep reading Substack.
so maddening to hear these arguments - was maddening then and even more so now.
When my colleagues were pushing for city-wide mandates, after losing the argument on transmission, which I clearly showed, they also defaulted to "filling the hospitals". I pointed out that the hospitals were never filled in 2020 and would not be now (2021), and pointed to the HHS dashboard. They said it would be worse, so then I proposed (not seriously) to mandate for those over 60 only, since those were the only ones that could possibly fill the hospitals... silence and cancellation followed next.
Unbelievable that intelligent people had this debate in 2020/2021 even most astonishing to have this now... they should be apologizing for their lapse in judgement and moral compass
... and don't get me started on vax for young people... the massive net harm as VP notes
USS Hope & USS Mercy (navy Hospital ships) sent to NYC & LA went UNUSED at the height of the pandemic.
It was a psy op. I don’t watch any prime time tv or listen to public radio but during those years I had the sense that I was doing something illegal by remaining unvaxxed. Whenever I would try to do research on mortality rates or statistics from non vaxxing countries I would be shunted off to a CDC website that then lectured me on how dangerous misinformation was. Then it proceeded to lecture me on the safety and efficacy of the shots and the importance of refreshing those injections so I could live a normal healthy life protecting myself and those around me. If I entered myocarditis, serology, natural immunity, I got the same treatment. I can’t imagine what it was like for physicians. I would assume if you tried to question or think outside the box you would be hit with protocol blah blah blah. Looking from outside medicine anybody that even questioned the dogma of the CDC was mocked and silenced. I was always amazed at what Vinay could get away with.
>> How many people got vaccinated in the US just because of the Biden mandates? The answer is shockingly low. Btw 1 to 4% by my estimates. You can perform discontinuity to prove this to yourself.
How are you arriving at this?? The country had a metaphorical gun to our head of being legally unpersoned, which plenty of caring souls would have very much liked to have been a literal gun.
Only 1-4% of those vaccinated did so because of unprecedented coercion and threats?
I'd really, really like to see the math on that.
The ONLY people I know running for these shots were over 75. The rest were mandated either by jobs or to travel. Your 4% is more like 40%.
I'd bet all my lost wages on it.
As a clinical allergist/immunologist I have wondered if intradermal as opposed to intramuscular mrna would be safer and more efficacious. Small studies are ongoing but as Dr. Prasad has pointed out many times in the past, the methodology of booster studies were so flawed as much of the med literature was steered by the narrative of a novel zoonosis spill over virus. Influenza vaccines were approved to give intradermally in 2014 but removed from market in 2018 as pharmacies cannot get away from the intramuscular delivery. With IM delivery you have S spike associated with myocytes which brings the molecular mimicry to the myocardium. A Tragedy begun in the name of pandemic preparedness at UNC Chapel Hill with Dr. Baric and Shileng manipulating corona genomics for decades now. A 2014 NPR reporter asked Baric if he was making dangerous viruses in his lab. His response was if you are a mouse. Then he lied and said mice dont sneeze as if transmission from mouse to human was impossible. A real shame for the NIAID cover up.
'Shame' is a rather inadequate characterization though, isn't it.
"..if intradermal as opposed to intramuscular mrna would be safer and more efficacious.."
Which choice would lower the probability of injecting the vaccine(since they don`t bother with aspiration anymore) into a capillary?
Itradermally general better tolerated since vessels are smaller in cutaneous and less likely to get intravascular dosing. This is not to say that smallpox vaccinations which are given intradermally in the skin thus leaving g the mark on the skin is not completely side effect free either. BCG vaccine is the world’s most luminous vaccine given and it is also given intradermally. In general intradermal vaccines are considered less reactive, genetic and more immuno genetic because of how antigen presentation takes place with dendritic cells that are more numerous in the skin. You can have an auto immune reaction to an applied vaccine, but the risk is lower than intramuscular.
Thanks !
Nicely done, Vinay. However, I have seen no evidence of a 5% protective factor, much less 50%. So this makes that part of the analysis even more compelling. Why would you choose 50%? There is general agreement that there is no impact on transmission or infectivity. Other than that, we salute you. Keep it up. People are idiots...same people with TDS have Covidmania as near as I can tell. They are all still masking, too. Another idiocy.
I agree with Guttermouth and Mary Miller...How many people got vaccinated in the US just because of the Biden mandates? The answer is shockingly low. Btw 1 to 4% by my estimates."...hell I told my employees if I was mandated (because I work in healthcare and take medicare monies, thankfully I was not "mandated" aka forced) that I would close my PT clinic. Vinay is way out of touch with the reality of where people were at. People could not go to work, school, travel, shopping! It was a forced mandate against people's medical will and freedom to choose my body/my choice. Unfortunately, many women couldn't regulate themselves enough to fight for my body/my choice. Ugh. They just laid down and started telling you that you were a bad person for not taking the vax.
I know multiple people with fake vaccination records. I had opportunity to get one myself but felt it was better to be excluded than falsely included - I objected to the mandates on principle even if I had the means to bypass them. I actually don’t think the actual vaccination rate is as high as estimated.
Well if that's true that it's not as high as estimated, then this vax is really bad killing and harming people. Do the math on that! If we.take out say 20% of those vaxxed out of the data, then deaths and injury are worse than we already know. That's depressing and dark.
i flew within the usa in summer & fall of 2020, a few times in '21 & '22 - remain unjabbed. there was never a vax mandate to travel in USA or even externally (to most countries). if you were a us citizen returning from abroad you needed a neg test, but no shot mandate.
shot mandates for patrons of businesses were only implemented in some cites / the vaccine passes (which we were told were the ideas of only conspiracy theorists before their short life) did commence in philly, NYC and a few other cites. however there were businesses in those cities which resisted, then the dam broke on the 'does not block transmission' fact which made vax passports totally obsolete other than being a scarlet letter for those who enforced or kowtowed to the tyranny
I know people who worked for the Steamship Authority (here where I live) or were let go, literally. So it did happen in certain areas and they made it hard to live unvaccinated in this country.
ty for sharing. i know many public school teachers who didnt want it but got it to avoid the risk of being fired...needless to say they are not happy as this plays out and the deceit which was used with the coercion is coming to light
Liking this for a friend.
I don't care how many "talks" there are, there is no way I am ever using any vaccine or mRNA poison. And unless it is a dire emergency, no big pharma drugs either. I have not seen anything significant that proves to me that taking drugs is better or healthier than not taking them. Can my doctor honestly answer that question? No, as he spends his time being baffled more often than not.
You must understand that all those reactions your body has, some noticed and some not, is your body trying to reject drug poisons. Often, the list of possible negative reactions is more painful/harmful than the disease or illness your are trying to treat.
Let's hope polio doesn't come back near you.
My understanding was that infants and toddlers never got symptomatic polio. Exposure at that early age provided lifelong protection. but when the environment got so cleaned up (no horse poop in the streets, etc) the exposure dropped and they were vulnerable to 'late' exposure on more naive immune systems. Recent polio vaccination experience in India resulted in hundreds of thousands of cases, renamed Non-polio Acute Flaccid Paralysis.
Sometimes I wonder if eradication goals are misguided, setting humanity up for future outbreaks, given that military complexes in many nations cannot help themselves in playing around with such pathogens.
Eradication saves lots of lives so I think it's a good goal. But I get your point. If a resurgence is plausible, we should be prepared. We should not try to eliminate all challenges to the immune system -- as so many people, especially parents, seem to do today -- and should work on building our immune systems. Apart from standard good health practices, that could include recent discoveries of ways to rejuvenate the immune system.
You might be interested in reading "The Moth in the Iron lung" .it's a fascinating book.
That response has bee proven idiotic a million times. 🥴 My father-in-law used that and he's now dead from turbo cancer. I've been saying for 3 years...you can't fix stupid, but you can vaccinate it!
“Incorrect. The Moderna randomized study shows an imbalance in severe disease, and this is highly statistically and clinically persuasive.”
From Pfizer study:
15 deaths vaccine arm, 14 deaths placebo arm. No mention of hospitalizations.
1 severe covid event in vaccine arm, 30 in placebo arm: 30 - 1 = 29 severe events reduced by the vaccine. 262 severe adverse reactions in the vaccine arm, 150 in the placebo arm: 262 – 150 = 112 severe events increased by the vaccine. 3.86 more severe events caused by the vaccine than reduced by the vaccine.
If the vaccines are assumed to save lives due to reduction in severe disease, why does not the same logic apply to severe reactions caused by vaccine. The vaccines would have killed 3.86 lives more than they saved.
Independent review of clinical data:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22010283
“Combined, the mRNA vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated (95 % CI 2.1 to 22.9); risk ratio 1.43 (95 % CI 1.07 to 1.92).”
Serious is much worse than severe. Serious means death, near death, disability, hospitalization.
Vaccine benefit: (may have worn off quicky after Covid19 mutations)
No reduction in death or hospitalization.
1 severe event per 776 vaccinated reduced by the vaccine
Vaccine harm:
1 severe event per 201 vaccinated caused by the vaccine
1 serious event per 800 vaccinated caused by the vaccine
Where is the benefit? No models please.
Excellent take down. Well said. Serious is much worse than severe. Thank you for simplifying this.
"Now does an increase in vaccination by 1 to 4% change transmission dynamics, when the vaccine has a 50% reduction in transmission that fades to 0% or perhaps even negative vaccine effectiveness at 4 months? The answer is absolutely not. As such it did nothing to shield hospitals from the overflow that they never had anyway in third quarter 2021."
And the people who had the most pressure were the healthcare workers, many of whom are early-retired now. So even worse damage to the healthcare system, and damage that is still ongoing.
Vinay, I would like to know if there are any studies that show the incidence and severity of myocarditis among those who get Covid AND have the Covid vax/boosters. It seems that would be a double-whammy.
Didn't the mandates apply to all businesses with over a certain amount of employers? 1 - 4% certainly seems shockingly low.
Thanks for reading your comments, and thanks for responding! This helps to educate us non-med people.
Yes how did you arrive at 1 to 4% ?!
Vinay doesn`t read any responses here...he mentioned it once.. :)
Forcefully and convincingly responded to the critics.
What is the actual reduction in transmission for those with the vaccine? Was that ever actually measured, or are we just assuming 50% decreasing to 0 after four month for the sake of argument?
Jonathan is still way ahead of you. You forgot about the negative effectiveness of the vaccines for the first 10 days as well as after 12-16 weeks. The vaccine’s effectiveness against transmission never reached 50% either. You are making progress. Keep thinking and keep reading Substack.
the 50% is bollocks...it was probably less than 0...
Oh my, VP seems very willing to debate the C-19 vaccines.. now.
Im happy to observe this.