Harsh assessment, but dead-on. Science and especially medicine (medical science has become an oxymoron) are beyond salvation as they have been gangrened by money for a long time. There are still several valuable and honest people in science and medicine, but few have the immense courage it takes for this David against Goliath endeavour of standing up to the bullies. My respect to VP, Ioannidis, Bhattacharya and others for doing just that.
Honestly, it kind of feels like the only research that is valuable to publish is research that reaches some level of statistic significance, but like most items, I think it's also important to be publishing the science that finds no significance (assuming people understand how to cite and use that research). Sometimes there's a good amount of data to be had in "what's the design of a study that failed" so that people can potentially determine "how can we start with a better question to ask" in essence, but academia doesn't see the same value in the kind of research that may be "negative test cases" as other fields might be interested in that.
The biggest problem with this whole piss poor research is a lot of it is used to determine “evidence based” protocols and if a doc is not following one of those protocols, despite getting good results, they can get fired, lose privileges or not advance. The corruption and detritus filters through the entire system.
I guess we have to be glad for some of this, but...many people do not recognize and/or do not want to believe the "business" of science. It does take a lot of money and where there is a lot of $$$...
Thank you Vinay for all you do and hope you can continue many years.
“A few years ago Michigan’s president resigned over an “inappropriate” but consensual relationship that lasted decades. Some tell me that this was well known for years, and no one cared”
The idea that anyone should get fired for consensual relationships between adults is crazy and very frightening. If we want to redefine adult as someone who’s 21 or 25 is fine with me, 18 is probably too young to really be considered an adult. But once you’re an adult you should be responsible for your own decisions, and the bar should be set very high to get someone fired for a consensual relationship. People need to get back to minding their own dang business and stop worrying about what other people do in their own private lives. Busybodies are wrecking the country!
When I read the news article in the Menlo Park Almanac this morning, this was also my immediate thought - that there is more to the story, and quite possibly he was forced to resign for some other reason. He was a good president. This seems unfair.
This is the first time I'm hearing this news. I wonder if this incident at the Stanford Law School is relevant:
In March, the Stanford Law School Federalist Society invited a speaker who was heckled by law students who didn't agree with the speaker's politics, and thus prevented him from giving his talk. These students were encouraged by a DEI Officer, Tirien Steinbach. The Law School Dean, Jessica Martinez, and MTL issued a written apology to Judge Duncan while suspending the DEI Officer. This was the honorable course of action. (I do not know if Ms Steinbach was ultimately fired or reinstated.)
There's more to the story, but I wonder if this episode was part of the reason MTL resigned. Did the DEI pitbulls harass/cancel MTL for his defense of free speech (at least in the Law School, if not Medical School)?
Here's some background. The original WSJ article and a story from the Stanford Daily.
Wall Street Journal Opinion: My Struggle Session at Stanford Law School
I also wondered about the recent flap up re-DEI administrator incident, and whether ousting the Stanford president has anything to do with that event? Timing suspicious here.....
#6 We have to investigate and punish everyone equally. It’s not fair to single someone out.
I think you should try that argument out next time you get pulled over for speeding.
In my generation’s thinking, it doesn’t matter how many other people are guilty. If you’re the one who gets caught, you’re going to be the one to eat the humble pie. Sort of like “If everyone jumped off a bridge, would you jump off the bridge too?” That’s what I tell my kids in response to the “everyone else is doing it” excuse.
I don’t know this situation you describe. I just found your argument interesting. One person getting busting here and there does help maintain general speed limits by all.
So you see, there is no truth. Because we can’t ever really get there. All science contains both fraud and truth. And that is why holding a scientist responsible for 9 fraudulent studies isn’t fair. Because there’s no true fraud either. It’s a continuum.
I think you would also make a good attorney and have great success at confusing a jury.
But is it “Frank DeStefano throw the data in the trash with William Thompson” kind of fraud???😆😆😆 Because that’s the highest level role model and no one cares. So I guess that’s ok. Why do even have to be scientist to write these papers? I can write a bunch of stuff someone pays me to say too. What, you just have to speak scientific lingo, then the results matter??? This would be comical ...if children weren’t actually getting killed and injured. I mean, placed more to the left of the life and death spectrum
Well I agree with the uselessness of bureaucrats and the usurpation of science by money/pharma/politics etc, but this story still matters. And the hero is Theo Baker-a freshman writing for the Stanford Daily who uncovered this story, ran with it, dug, dug, dug, with old fashioned investigative journalism. His winning the Polk Award in 2022 was a triumph for always questioning and never backing down. I do find it amazing that the Prez gets to keep his tenured position. I am sure the labor lawyers were hard at work…
Harsh assessment, but dead-on. Science and especially medicine (medical science has become an oxymoron) are beyond salvation as they have been gangrened by money for a long time. There are still several valuable and honest people in science and medicine, but few have the immense courage it takes for this David against Goliath endeavour of standing up to the bullies. My respect to VP, Ioannidis, Bhattacharya and others for doing just that.
"gangrened by money." That's a great way to put it
Vinay, you are on a roll. What can we do to help you megaphone these kinds of thoughts?
Honestly, it kind of feels like the only research that is valuable to publish is research that reaches some level of statistic significance, but like most items, I think it's also important to be publishing the science that finds no significance (assuming people understand how to cite and use that research). Sometimes there's a good amount of data to be had in "what's the design of a study that failed" so that people can potentially determine "how can we start with a better question to ask" in essence, but academia doesn't see the same value in the kind of research that may be "negative test cases" as other fields might be interested in that.
The biggest problem with this whole piss poor research is a lot of it is used to determine “evidence based” protocols and if a doc is not following one of those protocols, despite getting good results, they can get fired, lose privileges or not advance. The corruption and detritus filters through the entire system.
I guess we have to be glad for some of this, but...many people do not recognize and/or do not want to believe the "business" of science. It does take a lot of money and where there is a lot of $$$...
Thank you Vinay for all you do and hope you can continue many years.
“A few years ago Michigan’s president resigned over an “inappropriate” but consensual relationship that lasted decades. Some tell me that this was well known for years, and no one cared”
The idea that anyone should get fired for consensual relationships between adults is crazy and very frightening. If we want to redefine adult as someone who’s 21 or 25 is fine with me, 18 is probably too young to really be considered an adult. But once you’re an adult you should be responsible for your own decisions, and the bar should be set very high to get someone fired for a consensual relationship. People need to get back to minding their own dang business and stop worrying about what other people do in their own private lives. Busybodies are wrecking the country!
When it involves a subordinate, that really raises the question of whether it is truly consensual.
When I read the news article in the Menlo Park Almanac this morning, this was also my immediate thought - that there is more to the story, and quite possibly he was forced to resign for some other reason. He was a good president. This seems unfair.
Someone ALWAYS has to go under the bus.
This is the first time I'm hearing this news. I wonder if this incident at the Stanford Law School is relevant:
In March, the Stanford Law School Federalist Society invited a speaker who was heckled by law students who didn't agree with the speaker's politics, and thus prevented him from giving his talk. These students were encouraged by a DEI Officer, Tirien Steinbach. The Law School Dean, Jessica Martinez, and MTL issued a written apology to Judge Duncan while suspending the DEI Officer. This was the honorable course of action. (I do not know if Ms Steinbach was ultimately fired or reinstated.)
There's more to the story, but I wonder if this episode was part of the reason MTL resigned. Did the DEI pitbulls harass/cancel MTL for his defense of free speech (at least in the Law School, if not Medical School)?
Here's some background. The original WSJ article and a story from the Stanford Daily.
Wall Street Journal Opinion: My Struggle Session at Stanford Law School
https://www.wsj.com/articles/struggle-session-at-stanford-law-school-federalist-society-kyle-duncan-circuit-court-judge-steinbach-4f8da19e?st=k2o12707048fbh1&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
Stanford Daily article:
https://stanforddaily.com/2023/04/05/judge-duncan-stanford-law-school-explained/#:~:text=Stanford%20Law%20School%20(SLS)%20became,Equity%20and%20Inclusion%20Tirien%20Steinbach.
All's well that ends well. More or less (at P < .05).
I also wondered about the recent flap up re-DEI administrator incident, and whether ousting the Stanford president has anything to do with that event? Timing suspicious here.....
Killing 2 birds with 1 stone ....?
Wouldn't it save time and effort if scientists would report "null" results in research?
Now there’s the Liberal in you coming out.
#6 We have to investigate and punish everyone equally. It’s not fair to single someone out.
I think you should try that argument out next time you get pulled over for speeding.
In my generation’s thinking, it doesn’t matter how many other people are guilty. If you’re the one who gets caught, you’re going to be the one to eat the humble pie. Sort of like “If everyone jumped off a bridge, would you jump off the bridge too?” That’s what I tell my kids in response to the “everyone else is doing it” excuse.
I don’t know this situation you describe. I just found your argument interesting. One person getting busting here and there does help maintain general speed limits by all.
And #4. The Spectrum of Truth. I can only imagine what your parents went through with you as a teenager.
That’s a good one.
1+1 does not equal 2. Because there is no true number 2. The cutting the distance in half into infinity with the arrow theory.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/distance-cut-in-half-infinitely-shooting-an-arrow-at-tree.267547/
So you see, there is no truth. Because we can’t ever really get there. All science contains both fraud and truth. And that is why holding a scientist responsible for 9 fraudulent studies isn’t fair. Because there’s no true fraud either. It’s a continuum.
I think you would also make a good attorney and have great success at confusing a jury.
But is it “Frank DeStefano throw the data in the trash with William Thompson” kind of fraud???😆😆😆 Because that’s the highest level role model and no one cares. So I guess that’s ok. Why do even have to be scientist to write these papers? I can write a bunch of stuff someone pays me to say too. What, you just have to speak scientific lingo, then the results matter??? This would be comical ...if children weren’t actually getting killed and injured. I mean, placed more to the left of the life and death spectrum
Well I agree with the uselessness of bureaucrats and the usurpation of science by money/pharma/politics etc, but this story still matters. And the hero is Theo Baker-a freshman writing for the Stanford Daily who uncovered this story, ran with it, dug, dug, dug, with old fashioned investigative journalism. His winning the Polk Award in 2022 was a triumph for always questioning and never backing down. I do find it amazing that the Prez gets to keep his tenured position. I am sure the labor lawyers were hard at work…