Couldn't agree more. Well said. And Gottlieb's response now, to claim that revealing his email requests creates a "threat environment" for him and might create "menacing" responses, is beyond the pale. Likely a strategy sanctioned by Pfizer and it's multinational PR firms.
It was odd at the very beginning I remember getting sound advice. I had the original strain. Back then the recommendation was if you’ve had it then you don’t really need a shot then it was oh maybe only the J&J because it was a one shot deal. Then they pushed both. It never sat well that everyone originally remembered natural immunity then quickly told me that I was wrong and was spreading misinformation for just stating a fact! That made me crazy! This man was to blame!
Saying Natural SC2 Immunity is better than mRNA Vaccine is disparaging? How so? Before SC2 if you contracted Flu in September, you were advised not to get that season’s Flu Vaccine. How is SC2 different. The ball is in Gottlieb’s court to prove his statement but he has no data nor precedent!
I too am concerned that Vinay is somewhat discounting natural immunity. Why in the world would getting an mRNA shot protect you more from future severe infections than having had Covid itself?
Yes! I think the fact that the censored tweet came from a former acting FDA Commissioner should be highlighted in the first sentence of any discussion of these actions by Gottlieb and Twitter.
Just spoke to a school my son wants to attend, and they require teenagers to be vaccinated v. Covid through bivalent boosters because of CDC recommendations. So frustrating to not apply over this issue! Not worth the risk of myocarditis, though!
The Cleveland Clinic recently did a study on 50,000 employees and concluded that the bivalent booster was only about 30% effective at preventing infections. Obviously it was not covered much or at all in MSM.
I was speaking in regard to the requirement of updated vaccinations for all students (and employees) despite evidence that it doesn't do much for preventing infection (and thereby transmission).
Not even sure it reduces anything after a very short period. And there is a lot of disturbing data that boosters can allow even more serious infections. No RCT for that either, but the excess death numbers are not good.
Myocarditis is a rare side-effect of the vaccine but the intrinsic risk of COVID for serious complications is also low. If your son either has detectable antibodies or a documented history of COVID, the school has no scientific basis for this policy. Parents should speak up as well as my fellow physicians locally.
"Clinical" evidence is rare. There can be latent sub-clinical myocarditis that will only exhibit when under high stress. Sad truth, nobody is checking.
Let us embrace the truth. Why do we need to check for subclinical myocarditis which, by the way, may occur in many cases of enterovirus and infectious mononucleosis. If it is subclinical and it resolves on its own, what difference does it make? On the other hand, if we want to understand the fundamental viral biology of various causes of myocarditis, let some investigators proceed.
In our small county, 10 teenagers, both boys and girls, had myocarditis from vaccination and no one was checking for it. They came into the hospital with problems with their heart, and that’s why it was checked. When the health department called to offer vaccination for our teenage son, and we told them he’d already been exposed to the virus in our home multiple times, but had still not contracted it, but we were more concerned about myocarditis, the public health official told me she did not blame us at all. They had been dealing with these teenage myocarditis issues in the county that were so difficult for families. These teenagers were at very low risk for any kind of heart problems prior to getting vaccinated. They were also incredibly low risk of hospitalization from Covid. Requiring teenagers to get bivalent boosters is insane. At this point, every teenager in the country has been exposed to the virus. Continuing to require boosters every few months is ridiculous, and carries more risk of harm than advantages to healthy teenagers. Covid shots should be optional just like the flu shot. People can decide if they’re right for their child. When the government has to change the definition of vaccine for the Covid mRNA vaccine to be considered a real vaccine there is a problem. If you revert back to the pre-Covid, definition of vaccine, Covid MRNA doesn’t even qualify as a vaccine. Moreover, the only FDA approved version of Pfizer’s vaccine is not even available in the United States. So if you do have problems, you don’t even qualify to get help for having a problem with the vaccine the way you would for other vaccines in the United States. Moderna and J and J are not available for teens in most countries due to the high risks. (My husband, who is in his 50’s and an MD had Covid pre vaccine , then took J&J 6 months later, then boosted 6 months after that). High T cell longevity and spaced a way that makes sense. Completely different approach based on age and risks.
Excellent points, Vinay. Physicians need to be educated beyond the traditional narrow confines of medical ethics. The need for openness to challenges to scientific dogmas and the definitions of conflict of interest are begging to be included in medical education, graduate and post-graduate. Case studies should include the machinations of Francis Collins and Anthony Fauci as they sought with some success to squelch talk of the Wuhan Institute of Virology as the source of SARS-CoV2. In addition, the way that the medical establishment dealt with the Great Barrington Declaration needs to be studied in detail. The modern physician must be skilled in navigating active medical controversies. Many of our fellow citizens have concluded that as a profession, physicians no longer merit respect. It is up to us to earn it back.
And the new ones need people like you to help them. I’ll continue to do all I can behind the scenes to keep behavioral change an integral part of care for the population I treated prior to leaving healthcare.
ABSOLUTELY! The “science” lost me during the opiate pain med push back in the late 90’s; it solidified when the suggestion of natural immunity being inferior to a vaccine was pushed. I literally started this sentence with “how dumb can people be” and then backspaced it because it’s clear that we all can be. Critical thinking is minimal and Gottlieb is just another normal greedy human. Wrong kind of person for truly being helpful. I used to wonder what this world would be like if people weren’t in it for profit. The 12 traditions of AA are correct in answering that. Of note - I see that his email is exposed in that pic; however I won’t take my own ego’s bait to write him. He’s at a point where he CAN’T change and only criminal charges would wake him.
I don't think Gottlieb did anything illegal. From society's point of view, what he did was reprehensible. From Pfizer's point of view, what he did was laudable.
This is a perfect example of an expert who is interviewed extensively being able to hide his major conflict of interest. Until he wasn't able to hide it. Pathetic that main stream media (or is that click-bait driven new media) just propagates the conflict-caused-misinformation of these experts.
Ya you are right - and the best thing I know to do is never use a Pfizer product and out this guy on a long list of people to ignore or at least cross reference anything he says. But none of this is new. It’s just known now.
I get that but honestly it makes me feel like I’m doing something since 99% of us (I include myself a lot here too) just bitch and moan but do nothing.
If it can be demonstrated that Gottlieb (or others beholden to pharma) were able to influence public health messaging while suppressing alternative therapeutics and/or adverse data sets - that is pure criminality and should be treated as such.
I am curious about your analysis of these past reports/studies that do look at and quantify athlete death. Could any of these be used as a base line rate?
Totally agree Vinay, now can you please unblock me on Twitter (@gilbert_henry) as I want to follow you there too and I’ve never interacted with you on Twitter / see no reason to be blocked!
Couldn't agree more. Well said. And Gottlieb's response now, to claim that revealing his email requests creates a "threat environment" for him and might create "menacing" responses, is beyond the pale. Likely a strategy sanctioned by Pfizer and it's multinational PR firms.
It was odd at the very beginning I remember getting sound advice. I had the original strain. Back then the recommendation was if you’ve had it then you don’t really need a shot then it was oh maybe only the J&J because it was a one shot deal. Then they pushed both. It never sat well that everyone originally remembered natural immunity then quickly told me that I was wrong and was spreading misinformation for just stating a fact! That made me crazy! This man was to blame!
Saying Natural SC2 Immunity is better than mRNA Vaccine is disparaging? How so? Before SC2 if you contracted Flu in September, you were advised not to get that season’s Flu Vaccine. How is SC2 different. The ball is in Gottlieb’s court to prove his statement but he has no data nor precedent!
I too am concerned that Vinay is somewhat discounting natural immunity. Why in the world would getting an mRNA shot protect you more from future severe infections than having had Covid itself?
Vinay most likely just wants to keep his job. Remember, he lives in CA.
He is only saying there is no RCT proving the point. As if the evidence wasn't pretty obvious.
Not to mention the tweeter was a former acting FDA Commissioner!
Censoring a physician and FDA Commish for relaying their interpretation of science, medicine, and policy is straight up 1984.
Yes! I think the fact that the censored tweet came from a former acting FDA Commissioner should be highlighted in the first sentence of any discussion of these actions by Gottlieb and Twitter.
I didn't realize that Brett Gidoir was the former acting FDA Commissioner! This makes it even worse!
Check out his amazing bio: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Giroir
Just spoke to a school my son wants to attend, and they require teenagers to be vaccinated v. Covid through bivalent boosters because of CDC recommendations. So frustrating to not apply over this issue! Not worth the risk of myocarditis, though!
I wrote an exemption for my daughter for college, stating immunity from previous infection, no questions asked. I'm an NP.
That's great!
I might have to do the same if my workplace ever requires it again. (I work for a school district.)
The Cleveland Clinic recently did a study on 50,000 employees and concluded that the bivalent booster was only about 30% effective at preventing infections. Obviously it was not covered much or at all in MSM.
Chris, the issue is NOT preventing infection but reducing the chance of serious complications and death. Data is pending.
I was speaking in regard to the requirement of updated vaccinations for all students (and employees) despite evidence that it doesn't do much for preventing infection (and thereby transmission).
Not even sure it reduces anything after a very short period. And there is a lot of disturbing data that boosters can allow even more serious infections. No RCT for that either, but the excess death numbers are not good.
Myocarditis is a rare side-effect of the vaccine but the intrinsic risk of COVID for serious complications is also low. If your son either has detectable antibodies or a documented history of COVID, the school has no scientific basis for this policy. Parents should speak up as well as my fellow physicians locally.
15-39 per 100K according to Dr. Prasad meta-analysis.
"Clinical" evidence is rare. There can be latent sub-clinical myocarditis that will only exhibit when under high stress. Sad truth, nobody is checking.
You’re right!
Let us embrace the truth. Why do we need to check for subclinical myocarditis which, by the way, may occur in many cases of enterovirus and infectious mononucleosis. If it is subclinical and it resolves on its own, what difference does it make? On the other hand, if we want to understand the fundamental viral biology of various causes of myocarditis, let some investigators proceed.
In our small county, 10 teenagers, both boys and girls, had myocarditis from vaccination and no one was checking for it. They came into the hospital with problems with their heart, and that’s why it was checked. When the health department called to offer vaccination for our teenage son, and we told them he’d already been exposed to the virus in our home multiple times, but had still not contracted it, but we were more concerned about myocarditis, the public health official told me she did not blame us at all. They had been dealing with these teenage myocarditis issues in the county that were so difficult for families. These teenagers were at very low risk for any kind of heart problems prior to getting vaccinated. They were also incredibly low risk of hospitalization from Covid. Requiring teenagers to get bivalent boosters is insane. At this point, every teenager in the country has been exposed to the virus. Continuing to require boosters every few months is ridiculous, and carries more risk of harm than advantages to healthy teenagers. Covid shots should be optional just like the flu shot. People can decide if they’re right for their child. When the government has to change the definition of vaccine for the Covid mRNA vaccine to be considered a real vaccine there is a problem. If you revert back to the pre-Covid, definition of vaccine, Covid MRNA doesn’t even qualify as a vaccine. Moreover, the only FDA approved version of Pfizer’s vaccine is not even available in the United States. So if you do have problems, you don’t even qualify to get help for having a problem with the vaccine the way you would for other vaccines in the United States. Moderna and J and J are not available for teens in most countries due to the high risks. (My husband, who is in his 50’s and an MD had Covid pre vaccine , then took J&J 6 months later, then boosted 6 months after that). High T cell longevity and spaced a way that makes sense. Completely different approach based on age and risks.
Thanks for starting to call this out. Not even tip of the iceberg though.
If Gottlieb has legitimate concerns, why doesn't he debate? Isn't that what Twitter is for anyway?
Excellent points, Vinay. Physicians need to be educated beyond the traditional narrow confines of medical ethics. The need for openness to challenges to scientific dogmas and the definitions of conflict of interest are begging to be included in medical education, graduate and post-graduate. Case studies should include the machinations of Francis Collins and Anthony Fauci as they sought with some success to squelch talk of the Wuhan Institute of Virology as the source of SARS-CoV2. In addition, the way that the medical establishment dealt with the Great Barrington Declaration needs to be studied in detail. The modern physician must be skilled in navigating active medical controversies. Many of our fellow citizens have concluded that as a profession, physicians no longer merit respect. It is up to us to earn it back.
And the new ones need people like you to help them. I’ll continue to do all I can behind the scenes to keep behavioral change an integral part of care for the population I treated prior to leaving healthcare.
ABSOLUTELY! The “science” lost me during the opiate pain med push back in the late 90’s; it solidified when the suggestion of natural immunity being inferior to a vaccine was pushed. I literally started this sentence with “how dumb can people be” and then backspaced it because it’s clear that we all can be. Critical thinking is minimal and Gottlieb is just another normal greedy human. Wrong kind of person for truly being helpful. I used to wonder what this world would be like if people weren’t in it for profit. The 12 traditions of AA are correct in answering that. Of note - I see that his email is exposed in that pic; however I won’t take my own ego’s bait to write him. He’s at a point where he CAN’T change and only criminal charges would wake him.
I don't think Gottlieb did anything illegal. From society's point of view, what he did was reprehensible. From Pfizer's point of view, what he did was laudable.
This is a perfect example of an expert who is interviewed extensively being able to hide his major conflict of interest. Until he wasn't able to hide it. Pathetic that main stream media (or is that click-bait driven new media) just propagates the conflict-caused-misinformation of these experts.
Ya you are right - and the best thing I know to do is never use a Pfizer product and out this guy on a long list of people to ignore or at least cross reference anything he says. But none of this is new. It’s just known now.
Don't hold the entire corporation and its many valuable products guilty of the statement of one member to the Board of Directors.
I get that but honestly it makes me feel like I’m doing something since 99% of us (I include myself a lot here too) just bitch and moan but do nothing.
The one who should be offended the most is the COVID 19 virus who has always claimed superiority over a lame RNA strand that it owns.
“Conflict of interest” is putting it mildly.
If it can be demonstrated that Gottlieb (or others beholden to pharma) were able to influence public health messaging while suppressing alternative therapeutics and/or adverse data sets - that is pure criminality and should be treated as such.
I am curious about your analysis of these past reports/studies that do look at and quantify athlete death. Could any of these be used as a base line rate?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17143117/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4969030/
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.108.804617
Totally agree Vinay, now can you please unblock me on Twitter (@gilbert_henry) as I want to follow you there too and I’ve never interacted with you on Twitter / see no reason to be blocked!
What did twitter do about the request ?