the masks had several purposes, none of them having anything to do with stopping or slowing the virus. 1) be a visual reminder that the world is a dangerous germ ridden place and we must always be afraid 2) weaken your relationships and community 3) stop you from seeing smiles 4) beta testing to see how many absurd things people would accept without rebellion.
i did find one good purpose for them: during the winter months, breathing through a mask warms the air. the same thing, however, can be achieved by wearing a scarf
during the height of pandemic insanity, every shut down costume shop and every laid off wardrobe person spent their suddenly freed up time "doing their bit" making masks with all their scrap fabric. you couldn't find narrow elastic in a fabric store. friends were calling me to see if i had any to spare. i declined to contribute.
i spent my time making a bed ruffle for my guest room; i refused to be co-opted by a cult movement.
At least they didn't let the EIC flush their reputation down the toilet. I heard a comedian say (can't remember who) "the mask is the MAGA hat of the left" And I had to chuckle even though it was depressing at its core. Maybe the responsible adults are taking over the Clown $hit Show world. Maybe the dumpster fire will be put out. Maybe there is hope. Maybe the bird flu vaccine won't be mandated. Who am I kidding...ain't nobody stopping the ProfitDemic. But I will be DAMNED if I take another jab in my life. Never Forgive, Never Forget.
Vinay, This biatch permanently damaged the reputations of two senior scientists (and many others at Cochrane that worked on this) and, as near as can be told, will suffer no negative repercussions whatsoever. She is not fired. She is not censured. She did not care about the original damning announcement and she does not care now. Those are important points that you should have brought out. Just deciding that people can commit whatever malfeasance they wish and, as long as it is on the Left it is fine, is what has gotten us into this mess.
This makes complete sense. I have smoking videos of N95s. Not surprisingly, even when freshly fitted, and surely an hour later in a big way, the leaks are around the edges. That is why the stupid experiments where they use a filter disk between two chambers are stupid. And even masking tape (which is absurd on its face) would begin to shimmy/leak in an hour. Great observation.
I don’t understand the distinction of community masking vs individual masking. If masking is negative at the “community” level - which would capture the average wearer, then why would it be any different at the individual level? Unless the individual wears the mask religiously in all environments, why would the individual be different from the community?
It is not really any different. The only exception of my acquaintance is a case can be made for 15 minutes or so after a new, professionally fitted N95 mask is put on -- enough time to, for instance, in a reverse barrier room do a bone marrow. (It is not perfect, but perhaps has some value for those few minutes.) As soon as you move your face, scratch your eye, sweat, whatever that seal fades (try watching some cigarette experiments on N95s -- you will be quickly persuaded) it has NO value. And in the community, none of these things are true. They are mostly not N95 masks. Few of them are new with every wearing. None of them are professionally fitted. Everyone moves their faces, etc. And all of them are proposed for far more than 15 minutes of wearing.
So the individual case is almost zero (and it may actually be zero and just done to make those of us that go into reverse barrier to do procedures feel better). (There is marvelous literature where they divided an operating room complex into rooms that used masks and rooms that did not. There was never any difference in either patient or staff infection between the two -- enough said. But this is more than 15 minutes.) But it is clear that every other case is a fraud.
At some point during the early mask debates (probably 2020) I watched a popular video that supposedly "proved" masks are effective. They had mannequins with N95s duct taped to their mannequin faces and the video makers had rigged the mannequins, both masked and unmasked, to vaping devices. Specialized lighting was used to show that the vape smoke wasn't escaping from the masked mannequins but permeated the space around the unmasked mannequins. This was the "proof". All I could think was, "Who duct tapes a mask to their face???"
One of the worst medical writers in the history of medical writers, although that was (relatively speaking for her) a better piece than 99% of the others.
The government and MSM (one and the same) have learned that FEAR is incredibly powerful to manipulate the masses. They will continue to practice what works on their behalf as long as they have people enthusiastically buying into it (at least 1/2 and maybe more of the US).
Stop politicizing this issue. Does not explain why so many younger people are still wearing masks. It does not fully explain how public policy is formulated. This is an issue of policy over science. But it assumes all public policy is rational. Which it is not. We don't live in a rational society. There is plenty of irrational or even punishing public policy in every state. In the end, masking mandates was driven by fear and uncertainty.
And so what is your point as well. How does this lead to solutions or better policy formulation? Basically, you are implying two camps. One anti-establishment. The other socially conscious -- to a fault.
You raise an important question. I think the issue is that to say that wearing a mask makes one socially conscious is a false conclusion. Wearing a mask only indicates affiliation with a particular social group (which is radically different from "social consciousness") just as wearing a yarmulke indicates the same thing vis-a-vis a different group. The proper policy is telling people the truth (masks do not work for aerosolized viruses) and then letting them make their own decisions about whether they wish to wear them anyway as a social beacon. At least at that point there will be no confusion about what they represent.
During the pandemic, I received special dispensation to enter my building and use my office to print out items and check on cultures and so on. The campus was officially closed so this was regarded as a privilege. Then I was told, if there was anyone else in the building (it’s a three-story building), I had to wear a mask if they were on the first floor and I was on the third floor. I told the administration that was ridiculous and I would not comply. The administration remained silent on that one. They knew the rules the governor’s office was issuing were bullcrap, but they couldn’t say so in public for fear of retribution from the state of Michigan.
the masks had several purposes, none of them having anything to do with stopping or slowing the virus. 1) be a visual reminder that the world is a dangerous germ ridden place and we must always be afraid 2) weaken your relationships and community 3) stop you from seeing smiles 4) beta testing to see how many absurd things people would accept without rebellion.
i did find one good purpose for them: during the winter months, breathing through a mask warms the air. the same thing, however, can be achieved by wearing a scarf
during the height of pandemic insanity, every shut down costume shop and every laid off wardrobe person spent their suddenly freed up time "doing their bit" making masks with all their scrap fabric. you couldn't find narrow elastic in a fabric store. friends were calling me to see if i had any to spare. i declined to contribute.
i spent my time making a bed ruffle for my guest room; i refused to be co-opted by a cult movement.
Don't forget
5) signaling membership in the in-group of those enlightened who are Following The Science ™️
and maybe 6) depriving your brain of oxygen so you couldn't think clearly and were easily manipulated.
i bet we can come up with even more!
I totally agree with your assessment of the true purpose of face coverings!
At least they didn't let the EIC flush their reputation down the toilet. I heard a comedian say (can't remember who) "the mask is the MAGA hat of the left" And I had to chuckle even though it was depressing at its core. Maybe the responsible adults are taking over the Clown $hit Show world. Maybe the dumpster fire will be put out. Maybe there is hope. Maybe the bird flu vaccine won't be mandated. Who am I kidding...ain't nobody stopping the ProfitDemic. But I will be DAMNED if I take another jab in my life. Never Forgive, Never Forget.
Well said
Vinay, This biatch permanently damaged the reputations of two senior scientists (and many others at Cochrane that worked on this) and, as near as can be told, will suffer no negative repercussions whatsoever. She is not fired. She is not censured. She did not care about the original damning announcement and she does not care now. Those are important points that you should have brought out. Just deciding that people can commit whatever malfeasance they wish and, as long as it is on the Left it is fine, is what has gotten us into this mess.
Dr. Prasad, I deeply appreciate this update on Cochrane, and I'm sure many other readers do too. Thank you.
This makes complete sense. I have smoking videos of N95s. Not surprisingly, even when freshly fitted, and surely an hour later in a big way, the leaks are around the edges. That is why the stupid experiments where they use a filter disk between two chambers are stupid. And even masking tape (which is absurd on its face) would begin to shimmy/leak in an hour. Great observation.
Insanity isn’t it??
I don’t understand the distinction of community masking vs individual masking. If masking is negative at the “community” level - which would capture the average wearer, then why would it be any different at the individual level? Unless the individual wears the mask religiously in all environments, why would the individual be different from the community?
It is not really any different. The only exception of my acquaintance is a case can be made for 15 minutes or so after a new, professionally fitted N95 mask is put on -- enough time to, for instance, in a reverse barrier room do a bone marrow. (It is not perfect, but perhaps has some value for those few minutes.) As soon as you move your face, scratch your eye, sweat, whatever that seal fades (try watching some cigarette experiments on N95s -- you will be quickly persuaded) it has NO value. And in the community, none of these things are true. They are mostly not N95 masks. Few of them are new with every wearing. None of them are professionally fitted. Everyone moves their faces, etc. And all of them are proposed for far more than 15 minutes of wearing.
So the individual case is almost zero (and it may actually be zero and just done to make those of us that go into reverse barrier to do procedures feel better). (There is marvelous literature where they divided an operating room complex into rooms that used masks and rooms that did not. There was never any difference in either patient or staff infection between the two -- enough said. But this is more than 15 minutes.) But it is clear that every other case is a fraud.
At some point during the early mask debates (probably 2020) I watched a popular video that supposedly "proved" masks are effective. They had mannequins with N95s duct taped to their mannequin faces and the video makers had rigged the mannequins, both masked and unmasked, to vaping devices. Specialized lighting was used to show that the vape smoke wasn't escaping from the masked mannequins but permeated the space around the unmasked mannequins. This was the "proof". All I could think was, "Who duct tapes a mask to their face???"
VP, I hope you will comment on the June 8 piece by Zeynep Tufekci in the NYT.
One of the worst medical writers in the history of medical writers, although that was (relatively speaking for her) a better piece than 99% of the others.
The government and MSM (one and the same) have learned that FEAR is incredibly powerful to manipulate the masses. They will continue to practice what works on their behalf as long as they have people enthusiastically buying into it (at least 1/2 and maybe more of the US).
Blind faith in religious practices is called superstition.
Blind faith in US public health policies is called science.
Stop politicizing this issue. Does not explain why so many younger people are still wearing masks. It does not fully explain how public policy is formulated. This is an issue of policy over science. But it assumes all public policy is rational. Which it is not. We don't live in a rational society. There is plenty of irrational or even punishing public policy in every state. In the end, masking mandates was driven by fear and uncertainty.
Vinay is not the one who politicized the issue.
You miss the point. I can, with 98% (not tested but I'll bet on it) accuracy tell you the politics of the person wearing a mask.
And so what is your point as well. How does this lead to solutions or better policy formulation? Basically, you are implying two camps. One anti-establishment. The other socially conscious -- to a fault.
You raise an important question. I think the issue is that to say that wearing a mask makes one socially conscious is a false conclusion. Wearing a mask only indicates affiliation with a particular social group (which is radically different from "social consciousness") just as wearing a yarmulke indicates the same thing vis-a-vis a different group. The proper policy is telling people the truth (masks do not work for aerosolized viruses) and then letting them make their own decisions about whether they wish to wear them anyway as a social beacon. At least at that point there will be no confusion about what they represent.
Fear is a powerful / if not THE most powerful / motivator. That’s simple science!
During the pandemic, I received special dispensation to enter my building and use my office to print out items and check on cultures and so on. The campus was officially closed so this was regarded as a privilege. Then I was told, if there was anyone else in the building (it’s a three-story building), I had to wear a mask if they were on the first floor and I was on the third floor. I told the administration that was ridiculous and I would not comply. The administration remained silent on that one. They knew the rules the governor’s office was issuing were bullcrap, but they couldn’t say so in public for fear of retribution from the state of Michigan.
Yes. Y.E.S.
Boneheads abound. A great lesson in the vagaries of human objectivity, regardless of formal education.
Their June 2024 statement remains convoluted!