Medicine in general needs to take back their profession from the government. I’m very happy being a “mid level provider”. I understand that I don’t have the years of hard core science as most US physicians do. Though the lack of evidence based care and general common sense over the past few years has made me question what medical school is really about. I’m scared when I here MDs saying they just need to follow CDC guidance or are ok with pharmacists prescribing medicines to patients. If you guys don’t take back the reigns there will be no need for real medical education. Anyone can follow an algorithm and threat a patient. I really miss real doctors !! What happened to them? When I see them seeing patients in clinic that are wearing cloth masks I really don’t know what to think. Are they going to be ok with essential oils to cure cancer? Has the medical community lost its will to threat patients based on evidence and science?
My daughters just graduated with from Cal in MCB with concentration in neuroscience. All her labs and lectures were Zoom for the past 2 years. She is totally disillusioned and now wants to do marketing. I’m really sadden to see her passion for science just die. The best and brightest may no longer choose medicine. Medicine may be left to those weak intellectually and prone to group think, similar to teachers unions.
As someone who teaches both online and in-person, the hardest thing about teaching online is building connections with students. Close to 100% of my students leave their cameras off, and this is common with my colleagues as well. It's pretty hard to form connections with people when you've never seen their face even after 100 hours together. It's hard to stay engaged in a conversation when all you see is a name and a black background. People drift in and out of meetings. It's not uncommon to address someone and hear nothing in response. People are cooking, cleaning, watching TV, driving, etc. during class.
I get paid either way, but it still sucks the energy and motivation out a situation that is already unnatural.
Imagine the quality of care once those who have been doing med school these past years virtually enter the system full time. We've seen the effects on childhood reading and math scores. What about doctors doing their degrees virtually, will there be an effect?
As medical school faculty, I can tell you that most students of this cohort that has been locked down these past couple years have NO interest in attending live lectures. We put the live lectures on and literally five of 150 attend. This makes it very discouraging for teachers as well. We have tested this over and over; it seems irremediable. Because LCME now evaluates STUDENT's opinions over virtually everything else (the ultimate example of the inmates running the asylum) choices are few.
We are hoist by the petard of deprecated admissions (low evaluation of ability to learn and passion for the caring professions; high evaluation of demographics and SJW status -- I sit on admissions committee) and the resultant all pass fail (including boards, now) because those admitted are not competent to be fairly evaluated and we want to graduate them all because that is "equity". Couple this with the anti-social behavior foisted by malevolent government and captured educational institutions (especially vis-à-vis masking and anti-social distancing) and the next two years' cohorts just have no interest.
As faculty we would FAR prefer live lectures for all of the reasons you put out, Vinay, but at least as far as students, it is not happening. On the better news front, the currently entering class who has not been ruined by the lockdowns is showing up at 50% which is about as much as one can expect in medical school. So this may all be fine until there is some more absurd locking down this fall -- then it starts all over again.
The ramifications of what has been done to students, education, and society are just beginning to be seen. But none of them are good. All in pursuit of crushing a respiratory virus completely non-relevant to almost everyone under 80. The fallout will come in many areas; this is just one of many. One has to fear the quality of the doctors this is all graduating.
As an educator, I'm going to draw a distinction here. Zoom *lectures* suck. Pandemic virtual school sucked because the teachers weren't equipped or prepared. You can't effectively take a classroom approach and dump it into zoom and expect great results.
BUT as a 30+ year high school math teacher (I've done both classroom & online), I will say that teaching online can actually be very effective, interactive, and engaging. Doing so requires a completely different delivery. For example, teaching Honors Algebra 2, I use interactive platforms several times a week so that I can see students working in real time.
I've heard you say many times that online learning is a failure, and I just wanted to weigh in on the success of solid cyber programs versus zoom meetings. 😊
"We might as well give up lectures entirely, and watch videos on youtube. At least then you can watch the best lecture on the topic, not just the person who happens to be at your institution."
Honestly, this is how many kids were learning before the pandemic.... For some, it was more educational than school :(
"Every time I look online, I see people saying that if you get COVID19, you will get long COVID and your organs will liquify, starting with your brain."
Given the commentary, do you doubt the "liquified brain" brain hypothesis?
Medicine in general needs to take back their profession from the government. I’m very happy being a “mid level provider”. I understand that I don’t have the years of hard core science as most US physicians do. Though the lack of evidence based care and general common sense over the past few years has made me question what medical school is really about. I’m scared when I here MDs saying they just need to follow CDC guidance or are ok with pharmacists prescribing medicines to patients. If you guys don’t take back the reigns there will be no need for real medical education. Anyone can follow an algorithm and threat a patient. I really miss real doctors !! What happened to them? When I see them seeing patients in clinic that are wearing cloth masks I really don’t know what to think. Are they going to be ok with essential oils to cure cancer? Has the medical community lost its will to threat patients based on evidence and science?
My daughters just graduated with from Cal in MCB with concentration in neuroscience. All her labs and lectures were Zoom for the past 2 years. She is totally disillusioned and now wants to do marketing. I’m really sadden to see her passion for science just die. The best and brightest may no longer choose medicine. Medicine may be left to those weak intellectually and prone to group think, similar to teachers unions.
Spot on, this is twubble
I stand by my assertion that it's all the students - med school on down to preschool - who have paid the biggest price for these misguided policies.
I’ll be in medical school about a year from now. God help me if they can’t figure it out by then.
As someone who teaches both online and in-person, the hardest thing about teaching online is building connections with students. Close to 100% of my students leave their cameras off, and this is common with my colleagues as well. It's pretty hard to form connections with people when you've never seen their face even after 100 hours together. It's hard to stay engaged in a conversation when all you see is a name and a black background. People drift in and out of meetings. It's not uncommon to address someone and hear nothing in response. People are cooking, cleaning, watching TV, driving, etc. during class.
I get paid either way, but it still sucks the energy and motivation out a situation that is already unnatural.
Imagine the quality of care once those who have been doing med school these past years virtually enter the system full time. We've seen the effects on childhood reading and math scores. What about doctors doing their degrees virtually, will there be an effect?
As medical school faculty, I can tell you that most students of this cohort that has been locked down these past couple years have NO interest in attending live lectures. We put the live lectures on and literally five of 150 attend. This makes it very discouraging for teachers as well. We have tested this over and over; it seems irremediable. Because LCME now evaluates STUDENT's opinions over virtually everything else (the ultimate example of the inmates running the asylum) choices are few.
We are hoist by the petard of deprecated admissions (low evaluation of ability to learn and passion for the caring professions; high evaluation of demographics and SJW status -- I sit on admissions committee) and the resultant all pass fail (including boards, now) because those admitted are not competent to be fairly evaluated and we want to graduate them all because that is "equity". Couple this with the anti-social behavior foisted by malevolent government and captured educational institutions (especially vis-à-vis masking and anti-social distancing) and the next two years' cohorts just have no interest.
As faculty we would FAR prefer live lectures for all of the reasons you put out, Vinay, but at least as far as students, it is not happening. On the better news front, the currently entering class who has not been ruined by the lockdowns is showing up at 50% which is about as much as one can expect in medical school. So this may all be fine until there is some more absurd locking down this fall -- then it starts all over again.
The ramifications of what has been done to students, education, and society are just beginning to be seen. But none of them are good. All in pursuit of crushing a respiratory virus completely non-relevant to almost everyone under 80. The fallout will come in many areas; this is just one of many. One has to fear the quality of the doctors this is all graduating.
As an educator, I'm going to draw a distinction here. Zoom *lectures* suck. Pandemic virtual school sucked because the teachers weren't equipped or prepared. You can't effectively take a classroom approach and dump it into zoom and expect great results.
BUT as a 30+ year high school math teacher (I've done both classroom & online), I will say that teaching online can actually be very effective, interactive, and engaging. Doing so requires a completely different delivery. For example, teaching Honors Algebra 2, I use interactive platforms several times a week so that I can see students working in real time.
I've heard you say many times that online learning is a failure, and I just wanted to weigh in on the success of solid cyber programs versus zoom meetings. 😊
“…..intangible benefits of being face to face.“ 100%.
"We might as well give up lectures entirely, and watch videos on youtube. At least then you can watch the best lecture on the topic, not just the person who happens to be at your institution."
Honestly, this is how many kids were learning before the pandemic.... For some, it was more educational than school :(
I agree , the main reason I retired was telemedicine , on the other hand I love The Great Courses
I live in Chicago. Lots of talk about him running for President.
Gov. J.B. Pritzker on Wednesday announced
an end to a statewide COVID-19 vaccine
mandate for college students and faculty, es-
sentially leaving the policy up to individual
schools. On Thursday, some local colleges
and universities were still grappling with the
decision, while others came down on oppo-
site sides.
Pritzker announced the move
along with
other policy changes meant to
"carefully un-
wind" COVID-19 policies and mandates that
have been in place throughout the pandemic
despite growing concerns about new coro-
navirus variants that appear more able to
evade immunity,
"Every time I look online, I see people saying that if you get COVID19, you will get long COVID and your organs will liquify, starting with your brain."
Given the commentary, do you doubt the "liquified brain" brain hypothesis?
How else to account fo account for the rhetoric?