These medical students are idiots. They should not be doctors. Can you imagine being treated by these nuts if you politically disagreed with their political opinions? They should be expelled from medical school and others who want to help people, regardless of their political opinions, should take their places.
remember what happened during the pandemic? people were denied organ transplants (some died) on the basis of vaccination status. Dr Ronald Hoffman in NY (the Intelligent Medicine Podcast) was aghast. he reminisced about treating murder suspects handcuffed to beds with police standing guard at the door in his ER days, lung cancer patients who smoked, liver patients who drank, drug addicts who overdosed- all without any judgement.
suddenly traditional medical ethics, even the Nuremberg Code, went out the window and doctors were allowed, even celebrated, for discriminating against unvaccinated patients.
These students are idiots. They are protesting the wrong issue. I agree that listening to his speech and asking tough questions respectfully is more useful than protest.
The AMA has very little to do with Palestine, but AMA should be tried at Nuremberg 2.0 for promoting the vaccines and for not opposing vaccine mandates. It is unethical to mandate a vaccine that has not been proven to reduce transmission. Period. Let the vaccine-injured sue the AMA and personally sue its leaders. Pfizer was granted immunity through the Prep Act. I do not think that immunity extends to the AMA.
all these protests seem off target to me. pulling down a statue that never did you any harm. gluing your hand to a painting that in no way contributed to "climate change." blocking a bridge and making hundreds of commuters, who are equally powerless, hostile to your to cause. changing the names of streets which just confuses mail delivery.
it's all about as effective as putting a ukranian flag on your facebook post.
but notice how this discussion has dissolved into an israeli vs palestinian argument. the point of Dr Prasad's substack was not to solve this issue; he was very clear about that at the top. his point was really the intolerance of the students, their unwillingness to listen and maybe learn, their inability to hear other points of view.
when they get their degrees, will they be able to listen to their patients?
read these comments, the incessant back and forth about israel vs palestine, genocide vs self defense. what does that tell you about people's ability to argue a specific topic?
absolutely, the AMA should be sued out of existence for it's behavior during the pandemic. also the CDC, the FDA, the met opera, the spoleto festival, the holocuast museum and any number of organizations that invalidated their very raison d'etre by failing utterly to hold onto their principles.
i would take it a step further- It is unethical to mandate ANY vaccine whether or not it has been proven to reduce transmission, even if the pathogen in question has an IFR of 100% and the vaccine is 100% safe. it was especially horrifying to watch the "my body, my choice" crowd do a complete about face when it came to covid vaccines.
I’m not a medical professional, but I might steer you to some resources on supplements and give you some ideas on how to find a medical professional to meet your goals. I’ve always been interested in health, but COVID-19 has been a wake up call. WEF is much more powerful and organized than I realized. After 4 years we still do nit have record-level data connecting vaccination history to deaths, disabilities, new cases of cancer, reactivation of cancer after remission, or hospitalization. We are so far behind.
Actually, it's unethical to mandate a vaccine, period. Also I do not think any vaccine has actually been *proven* to "reduce transmission," but that's another ball of wax entirely, and it's irrelevant here. People have the right to choose or to refuse vaccination.
Prior to "covid", if you had ANY severe respiratory infection , doctors would prescribe steroids to combat inflammation/immune overreaction and antibiotics to limit secondary bacterial infections. They'd give you nothing for a viral infection itself, 'cause that is inherently a self limiting thing and besides there's no drug that works for that, anyway.
The denial of those drugs at odds with standard practice for consequential respiratory infections and seems, quite frankly malicious.
My sister went to med school as an intelligent woman, and she came out the other side as a brain dead zombie and a woke bigot. And that was almost ten years ago. I can't even imagine what they do to these poor kids today. The lockdowns and forced injections didn't come out of nowhere. It's the result of decades of totalitarian indoctrination in med schools, among other things.
Absolutely agree. I would not want any of these individuals to be my physician or in anyway involved in care. Their priorities are horribly skewed. Of course, the admissions process as it exists selected them for these very qualities.
The woke mind virus is epidemic in academia. That future doctors are acting this way further erodes what little trust I have left in the medical profession, after the covid debacle.
It shows in healthcare that the students have had something other than medicine on the brain. Independent clinical judgement is cancelled. Protocols are followed slavishly, because such guardrails are needed by those for whom politics and wokeness have supplanted study of the human body and diseases that can affect it.
As a pediatrician in the limelight of his career and a former AMA delegate, I can say that this behavior stems from the pernicious teaching in undergrad and in medical schools of academic university DEI.
They are taught that one is either privileged or not, oppressor or oppressed etc and to stifle any dissenting opinion that might hurt their feelings.This leads to their destructive behaviors and lack of critical thinking- a very poor foundation for our future doctors.
Whom is going to take the lead in reforming university based DEI?
Question, can students who do not participate in “activism” and/or agree with DEI initiatives be admitted to and succeed in medical school in this day and age? I worry about my daughter’s chances of getting admitted. She is interviewing with schools. Although I wish her the best and would love it if she became a doctor, is it worth what she may have to capitulate to??? 😕
So, he was there to give a speech about caring for the LGBTQ+ community, and they are advocating for a culture of people that would throw an LGBTQ+ person off of a roof. The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
Well, if you're actually talking about trans, I don't think carving up people's private parts is very caring. You actually don't really know diddly squat about Palestinian culture, which isn't surprising since you've been exposed to anti-Arab and anti-Muslim racism your entire life. It's sad that you cannot see it.
You are on point. Disrupting a speaker should not be tolerated. It is rude and uncivil behavior. They can be allowed to make their points during a Q and A, or a different venue. They should be suspended from school;actions should have consequences.
First question - are you sure the people shouting were actually medical students? Next, I assume these people wear masks not because of Covid considerations but to hide their faces. If you look at pictures of protestors standing OUTSIDE in front of businesses, they also typically wear masks. Again to hide.
I'd recommend Rob Henderson's new book, Troubled. He was taken into foster care at 3, lived in 10 different homes, and then fought his way upwards in life through military sevice and then a degree at Yale and PHd at Cambridge. He talks about the luxury beliefs that the insulated upper class and academics develop. These shout-downs are performative affluent liberal virtue signaling. Whether the actions or policies of the elite class has a measurable benefit on those they purport to advocate for is irrelevant to them. Displays of "compassion" are status boosters for the activists. The groups they advocate for are little more than replaceable mascots. Social media made all of this worse because just LOOK at all the attention young adults can get during their messiah phase!
Pre-ordered and read the book. Quite insightful! Henderson writes at great length about his deprivations as a child and his self-destructive behaviors that resulted. It’s not till the last chapter or two that he changes his focus and eviscerates the luxury beliefs of his coddled and hypocritical classmates-- beliefs which are dictating from on high the social and cultural destruction of the middle class and poor, i. e., those who built and defend this country.
I believe what is at issue is that the AMA made a statement about hospitals in Ukraine but refuse to do the same when it’s non-white people being genocided. The AMA is a tool for Pharma profits, they have lost any credibility they may have enjoyed when they witch hunted doctors during the “pandemic”.
Of course a genocide is occurring. What Israel has done in Palestine since October is the textbook definition of genocide, as per the UN convention on genocide. No serious person fails to recognize this, however it's an unrelated point to whether speakers should be shouted down at medical schools, or in fact at any public event. And of course they shouldn't, as Prasad suggests.
If Israel wanted to genocide them, they’d all be dead by now. Instead, Israel drops leaflets with warning by the millions, makes phone calls, opens and guards hunanitarian corridors to safe zones. El Mawasi is a safe zone: the people in Rafah could go there. I don’t know why so many are still in Rafah, which they know Israel is going to take apart looking for hostages and destroying the last four Hamas battalions. Those killed the night of the hostage rescue shouldn’t have been there. El Mawasi is less than a half hour walk north of Rafah. Israel did not target them, but Hamas.
A textbook case of genocide would be the Holocaust, or Rwanda. Not this. What we’re seeing now is urban warfare. Civilians, if such they really are, need to get out of the way. Israel’s ratio of militant to civilian deaths is one to two or three, the most favorable in all of history. But yes, in war, many non-combatants are killed, and that cannot be avoided. It would certainly have been desirable for Hamas to think carefully about the completely foreseeable results of their demonic torture, rape, kidnapping, and murder of thousands of innocents, and decided not to do it. As it is, Hamas is doomed, as is Gaza. This is the war that they wanted.
Approximately 100% of the Israeli propaganda you've regurgitated is untrue. After all, it's a matter of public record that Israel directed Gazans into "safe zones"... and then bombed the safe zones.
You claim El Mawasi is a "safe zone", but just a couple of days ago Israel targeted, shelled and destroyed the clearly marked shelter of Doctors Without Borders in El Mawasi, killing unarmed women/staff sheltering inside. Whom is the "safe zone" safe for, again?
You claim "Israel’s ratio of militant to civilian deaths is one to two or three" but that's merely because you reflexively believe the proven liars in power in Israel when they claim that every woman and child they kill are "militants".
You state "amas to think carefully about the completely foreseeable results of their demonic torture, rape, kidnapping, and murder of thousands of innocents", when Israel's own figure for the October 7th death toll was less than 1,300, including what they state were around 700 civilians. Since when 700 civilians turn into "thousands of innocents"? Heck, when did 1,300 people turn into "thousands" of people, period? If you were actually secure in your beliefs you wouldn't feel the need to exaggerate the crimes of your hated enemies in this way.
I could go on, but at this point it's obvious where you're coming from, and it's obvious what the quality level of your arguments is.
Zionism is the BELIEF that one is entitled to have a state based on one ersatz religion. We in the US have a Constitution that proclaims the right to religious freedom. You support the Constitution or the Zionists. Take your choice.
You state "Zionism isn’t a dirty word. It’s simply believing that Israel has a right to exist."
Wrongo: Zionism is the belief that an Israeli quasi-ethno-state should exist. Whereas in fact ethno-nationalism is always a negative. Israel is an autocracy, not a democracy. Second class citizenship for undesirables has been codified in law as well as in practice for the past few years in Israel.
Israel SHOULD exist... as an actual democracy without preferential treatment for one people or another.
It's a war, not a genocide. Yes, they're trying to topple a regime, but they are not trying to wipe out a people. Just an army that hides itself among the civilians, and has admitted to using ambulances, schools, and hospitals to transport ammunition and hide their headquarters.
One of the most militarily advanced nuclear powers in the world waging a "war" against 2 million impoverished, malnourished prisoners, reducing their homes to rubble, withholding essential medical aid, food and even water and STATING that that's exactly what they're doing, publicly, killing tens of thousands of unarmed civilians that have nothing to do with Hamas?
One would have to be extraordinarily deluded to claim that that's a "war". It's a genocide.
As noted above, it fits the definition of genocide as per UN conventions. The truth very much does not care about your feelings.
It's also not true that the conflagration "started" on October 7th last year as you opine. It's lastly not true that the most militarily advanced nuclear power in the region could wage any kind of legitimate "war" against a couple of million impoverished, starving civilian prisoners in Gaza. One would have to be both ignorant and shockingly hypocritical to make the kind of claims you are making.
Genocide is occuring - by Israel, supported by Nazi-clone Jews and others. And fyi given genocide is a word invented not so long ago, we now accept the creation of the verb genociding.
No, that was a large terrorist act. Genocide is what the Nazi state of Israel is perpetrating now, with its Nazi Warsaw Ghetto operation magnified x1000.
But if Hamas gets its way the Jews will be “genocided.” AND Hamas is the group putting their women & children in harm’s way. They initiated the conflict by a terrorist act. Then continually & deliberately put their women& children in harm’s way. As part of a sick strategy to win the war of public opinion.
It's not Jews but Zionists who are trying to exterminate all Palestinians. That has been their intention all along. Zionists are atheists. Therefore, not Jews. Palestinians understand this. Apparently you do not. The Palestinians are not interested in "genociding" anyone; they want their human rights. They want the killing of their children to stop. Enough already.
Ah yes, that is exactly what the Nazis did. They slaughtered civilian populations whenever they were attacked. But Lidice and the Warsaw Ghetto are small fry compared to the current Genocide in Gaza. With starvation now being used instead of gas chambers.
Really, this victim pose as the Jewish genocide in Gaza proceeds is pretty Goebbelian. And did I mention the terror attacks on helpless civilians by the IDF and settlers on the West Bank that have gone up exponentially under cover of the Gaza genocide?
I’m not aware of the Nazi ghetto operation in Israel. Never been there. But yes terrorists. And they also genuinely hate Jews. They openly call for their death. Isn’t that genocide?
It's the IDF who killed most of the people who died on October 7, 2023. Palestinians don't hate Jews. They co-existed with Jews long before the establishment of Israel. The Zionists are the ones who hate Jews and are putting them in harm's way as we speak.
Really? It's in the news every day. Erroneously called the "war in Gaza." A sophisticated military raining death on helpless children, women and men. Just like the Nazi Warsaw Ghetto op. And now implementing its version of the Final Solution via starvation - after also destroying every hospital and 75% of the homes.
But you're a Good German, you dont see it.
And please - trying to play the victim here is pretty horrendous, even for racist Zionists.
It's pretty pathetic that you try to pretend that Israel and Jews are the victims here. The whole world has woken up to the reality of Jewish racism, apartheid and ethnic cleansing. But you never cease the charade of playing the victim - a really shameless performance.
Paulette, your rhetoric in calling Jews Nazis is completely inappropiate, and you know it. This is the ultimate in offensive anti-semitism. It is not appropriate here.
Some of us know how the English language evolves as words come into common usage. Just as "genocide" wasn't a word till it was invented after WW2. Some of us also know what close reading is, and know that "we accept a word" is not the same as "this word is already in the OED." But given the caliber of today's English teachers, not surprising that is not understood here!
And to get back to the point - this tired, lame attempt to equate valid criticism of Israeli atrocities with antiSemitism is LONG past its sell-by date. Nice Goebbelian try, though.
Medical school education is as much about teaching medical knowledge and science as it is about teaching someone how to think and behave as a professional. It is great to have opinions and to be passionate about them. It is wonderful to take that passion to a protest or rally or to raise money for a cause. It is not professional to behave this way in a forum attended by presumably professional individuals.
This type of behavior, if exhibited in the hospital or clinic, will result in professional discipline some day. The medical students might as well learn that now - it will not be okay to yell at a patient or spout political ideology to staff working with them in the near future. The leadership of the school needs to help them to understand the consequences of acting out in this fashion - before they wind up dismissed from a job.
100% agree. What has happened to the definition of professionalism? I don’t think they know what that actually means in a broad, real world, dealing with patients way.
Once again, thank you, Vinay, for bringing this incident to our attention. The students, if they actually were students, definitely deserve some sort of negative consequence as this was neither the time nor the place for such behavior. I completely agree that the AMA and other professional organizations have become politicized and captured by pharmaceutical companies, food manufacturers, and other special interests who don’t really care about improving health outcomes of our population.
I’m hoping the pendulum will swing back and schools will lead by example and actually teach professional demeanor and behavior.
1). I am not certain that this type of behavior would bring discipline from the hierarchy at my institution, so long as the outrage was in line with those who were calling the shots.
2.) To be a professional means you are paid a fee to complete a job, regardless of what is involved in completion of the job. When I decided to pursue a career in clinical medicine/surgery, I thought that was nonnegotiable. I see very few more recently graduated “professionals“ see it the same way. In fact, all evidence points to the contrary. I recently had a partner beside himself that he would have to take two weekends of call in a month because someone else was on vacation, and that amount of call was too stressful and affecting his personal life.
So the available evidence suggests that what is currently getting taught in medical school, may not be similar to what was taught in the past.
I saw so many doctors lose their minds, in a political and totally unprofessional way, over covid and vaccines during the pandemic. It has made me opt out of the whole system. When I see these self-righteous idiots shouting down this lecturer I am pretty sure I won't be returning to the care setting any time soon. It isn't safe, and these people are ideologically insane. A witch doctor has more credibility than these preening fools. They lack the maturity necessary to be responsible for other people's health.
Shouting down any speaker is more than rude, counterproductive, disrespectful, or appropriate to learning. This should not be allowed anywhere! What good are they doing? People will see this as a negative to what their topic is. They should be disciplined for this and made an example of to others! A professional arena is particularly shameful. Do they not see how this reflects on them? On the profession? Their future?
If they are not allowed an equal forum in which to be heard, what do expect them to do? Of course they are going to put in their two cents. Their opinions and right to speak have become crimes, according to the Congress. This is ridiculous.
So I graduated from med school 23 years ago and back then you need volunteerism on your application but about 5-10 years ago that was changed to activism. That’s how this happens, we are prioritizing activists over altruists. Not all radical progress is in the right direction.
I'm with you. And I worry gravely about what's happening with our young folks in all disciplines. I'd like to think they will see the error of their youthful foolishness as they mature but I don't think that will happen. The positive side of being old is that I won't have to endure what our country will become.
The insistence that at all times everyone must be making political pronouncements of an exact nature and 100% adhering to a specific agenda every time (eg masking, war mongering, etc).. is the ruination of everything "liberal" and "progressive". This continued shouting political agenda in completely inappropriate places is showing those involved their level of detachment from the world, they should have been asked to leave.
Nothing logical can explain their actions. I suspect this phenomenon is due to young people spending less time interacting with real people (socially and professionally). Also the allure of becoming an Instagram hero is potent.
This is really scary because it’s true. If you watch kids today together at a restaurant or out somewhere, they are all looking at their phones. It must be terrifying for them to think—let me put this down and talk to people. Good grief!
ironically they claim a moral high ground but their MO is completely amoral & revolves around an addiction to online conflict. So right now it's all about calling Jews liars but when the war's over they'll just move on to the next scapegoat. It only stops if friends & family intervene to break the addiction just like a drug addiction
These medical students are idiots. They should not be doctors. Can you imagine being treated by these nuts if you politically disagreed with their political opinions? They should be expelled from medical school and others who want to help people, regardless of their political opinions, should take their places.
remember what happened during the pandemic? people were denied organ transplants (some died) on the basis of vaccination status. Dr Ronald Hoffman in NY (the Intelligent Medicine Podcast) was aghast. he reminisced about treating murder suspects handcuffed to beds with police standing guard at the door in his ER days, lung cancer patients who smoked, liver patients who drank, drug addicts who overdosed- all without any judgement.
suddenly traditional medical ethics, even the Nuremberg Code, went out the window and doctors were allowed, even celebrated, for discriminating against unvaccinated patients.
These students are idiots. They are protesting the wrong issue. I agree that listening to his speech and asking tough questions respectfully is more useful than protest.
The AMA has very little to do with Palestine, but AMA should be tried at Nuremberg 2.0 for promoting the vaccines and for not opposing vaccine mandates. It is unethical to mandate a vaccine that has not been proven to reduce transmission. Period. Let the vaccine-injured sue the AMA and personally sue its leaders. Pfizer was granted immunity through the Prep Act. I do not think that immunity extends to the AMA.
all these protests seem off target to me. pulling down a statue that never did you any harm. gluing your hand to a painting that in no way contributed to "climate change." blocking a bridge and making hundreds of commuters, who are equally powerless, hostile to your to cause. changing the names of streets which just confuses mail delivery.
it's all about as effective as putting a ukranian flag on your facebook post.
but notice how this discussion has dissolved into an israeli vs palestinian argument. the point of Dr Prasad's substack was not to solve this issue; he was very clear about that at the top. his point was really the intolerance of the students, their unwillingness to listen and maybe learn, their inability to hear other points of view.
when they get their degrees, will they be able to listen to their patients?
read these comments, the incessant back and forth about israel vs palestine, genocide vs self defense. what does that tell you about people's ability to argue a specific topic?
absolutely, the AMA should be sued out of existence for it's behavior during the pandemic. also the CDC, the FDA, the met opera, the spoleto festival, the holocuast museum and any number of organizations that invalidated their very raison d'etre by failing utterly to hold onto their principles.
i would take it a step further- It is unethical to mandate ANY vaccine whether or not it has been proven to reduce transmission, even if the pathogen in question has an IFR of 100% and the vaccine is 100% safe. it was especially horrifying to watch the "my body, my choice" crowd do a complete about face when it came to covid vaccines.
I pray that most of these mask-wearing protestors were activists and not medical students. I should have said “these protestors” are idiots.
I agree with all the comments.
I especially like what you wrote at end re your general strategy. You're a bona-fide strategician and can attend my medical needs anytime!
I’m not a medical professional, but I might steer you to some resources on supplements and give you some ideas on how to find a medical professional to meet your goals. I’ve always been interested in health, but COVID-19 has been a wake up call. WEF is much more powerful and organized than I realized. After 4 years we still do nit have record-level data connecting vaccination history to deaths, disabilities, new cases of cancer, reactivation of cancer after remission, or hospitalization. We are so far behind.
Actually, it's unethical to mandate a vaccine, period. Also I do not think any vaccine has actually been *proven* to "reduce transmission," but that's another ball of wax entirely, and it's irrelevant here. People have the right to choose or to refuse vaccination.
Prior to "covid", if you had ANY severe respiratory infection , doctors would prescribe steroids to combat inflammation/immune overreaction and antibiotics to limit secondary bacterial infections. They'd give you nothing for a viral infection itself, 'cause that is inherently a self limiting thing and besides there's no drug that works for that, anyway.
The denial of those drugs at odds with standard practice for consequential respiratory infections and seems, quite frankly malicious.
Wastes of space IMO.
Someone needs to take the lead, because what you’re describing also sounds a lot like communism.
How so?
My sister went to med school as an intelligent woman, and she came out the other side as a brain dead zombie and a woke bigot. And that was almost ten years ago. I can't even imagine what they do to these poor kids today. The lockdowns and forced injections didn't come out of nowhere. It's the result of decades of totalitarian indoctrination in med schools, among other things.
Absolutely agree. I would not want any of these individuals to be my physician or in anyway involved in care. Their priorities are horribly skewed. Of course, the admissions process as it exists selected them for these very qualities.
The woke mind virus is epidemic in academia. That future doctors are acting this way further erodes what little trust I have left in the medical profession, after the covid debacle.
It shows in healthcare that the students have had something other than medicine on the brain. Independent clinical judgement is cancelled. Protocols are followed slavishly, because such guardrails are needed by those for whom politics and wokeness have supplanted study of the human body and diseases that can affect it.
As a pediatrician in the limelight of his career and a former AMA delegate, I can say that this behavior stems from the pernicious teaching in undergrad and in medical schools of academic university DEI.
They are taught that one is either privileged or not, oppressor or oppressed etc and to stifle any dissenting opinion that might hurt their feelings.This leads to their destructive behaviors and lack of critical thinking- a very poor foundation for our future doctors.
Whom is going to take the lead in reforming university based DEI?
Question, can students who do not participate in “activism” and/or agree with DEI initiatives be admitted to and succeed in medical school in this day and age? I worry about my daughter’s chances of getting admitted. She is interviewing with schools. Although I wish her the best and would love it if she became a doctor, is it worth what she may have to capitulate to??? 😕
nowadays, i think your sworn allegiance to a bullshit ideology counts for even more than your GPA
It has. Hopefully, though, universities are waking up. Yale, Dartmouth… are requiring SAT scores again. Finding out DEI doesn’t produce smart people
yes, we may have reached peak insanity. at some point things are so bad that even the most blind can see
can you imagine going to a doctor who sees you as an "oppressor" deserving of "punishment" or cancellation?
Yes. And it sucks.
So, he was there to give a speech about caring for the LGBTQ+ community, and they are advocating for a culture of people that would throw an LGBTQ+ person off of a roof. The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
So the woke got shouted down by the woke for not being woke enough.
when wokes collide
Best comment yet!
Actually he was about to give a speech on chemically and surgically mutilating children.
I don’t think these students realized that inconvenient part yet.
Well, if you're actually talking about trans, I don't think carving up people's private parts is very caring. You actually don't really know diddly squat about Palestinian culture, which isn't surprising since you've been exposed to anti-Arab and anti-Muslim racism your entire life. It's sad that you cannot see it.
You are on point. Disrupting a speaker should not be tolerated. It is rude and uncivil behavior. They can be allowed to make their points during a Q and A, or a different venue. They should be suspended from school;actions should have consequences.
They don't care about rude and uncivil.....they support people who perpetrated Oct. 7.
Yeah, and that should have consequences too.... LIke alumni walking away with their donations.
Actions should have consequences. For many they do not !
First question - are you sure the people shouting were actually medical students? Next, I assume these people wear masks not because of Covid considerations but to hide their faces. If you look at pictures of protestors standing OUTSIDE in front of businesses, they also typically wear masks. Again to hide.
In other words--sniveling cowards.
The masks are worn to show solidarity with the Covid scam.
The other reason is because they’re ignorant.
Another reason could be that they want to hide their faces--to shout without being recognized.
Good point, they may have been activists and not student activists
I'd recommend Rob Henderson's new book, Troubled. He was taken into foster care at 3, lived in 10 different homes, and then fought his way upwards in life through military sevice and then a degree at Yale and PHd at Cambridge. He talks about the luxury beliefs that the insulated upper class and academics develop. These shout-downs are performative affluent liberal virtue signaling. Whether the actions or policies of the elite class has a measurable benefit on those they purport to advocate for is irrelevant to them. Displays of "compassion" are status boosters for the activists. The groups they advocate for are little more than replaceable mascots. Social media made all of this worse because just LOOK at all the attention young adults can get during their messiah phase!
Pre-ordered and read the book. Quite insightful! Henderson writes at great length about his deprivations as a child and his self-destructive behaviors that resulted. It’s not till the last chapter or two that he changes his focus and eviscerates the luxury beliefs of his coddled and hypocritical classmates-- beliefs which are dictating from on high the social and cultural destruction of the middle class and poor, i. e., those who built and defend this country.
Jess, this is the best comment I have read. Brilliant, accurate summation - thank you.
I believe what is at issue is that the AMA made a statement about hospitals in Ukraine but refuse to do the same when it’s non-white people being genocided. The AMA is a tool for Pharma profits, they have lost any credibility they may have enjoyed when they witch hunted doctors during the “pandemic”.
No genocide is occurring. And "genocided" is not a word.
Of course a genocide is occurring. What Israel has done in Palestine since October is the textbook definition of genocide, as per the UN convention on genocide. No serious person fails to recognize this, however it's an unrelated point to whether speakers should be shouted down at medical schools, or in fact at any public event. And of course they shouldn't, as Prasad suggests.
If Israel wanted to genocide them, they’d all be dead by now. Instead, Israel drops leaflets with warning by the millions, makes phone calls, opens and guards hunanitarian corridors to safe zones. El Mawasi is a safe zone: the people in Rafah could go there. I don’t know why so many are still in Rafah, which they know Israel is going to take apart looking for hostages and destroying the last four Hamas battalions. Those killed the night of the hostage rescue shouldn’t have been there. El Mawasi is less than a half hour walk north of Rafah. Israel did not target them, but Hamas.
A textbook case of genocide would be the Holocaust, or Rwanda. Not this. What we’re seeing now is urban warfare. Civilians, if such they really are, need to get out of the way. Israel’s ratio of militant to civilian deaths is one to two or three, the most favorable in all of history. But yes, in war, many non-combatants are killed, and that cannot be avoided. It would certainly have been desirable for Hamas to think carefully about the completely foreseeable results of their demonic torture, rape, kidnapping, and murder of thousands of innocents, and decided not to do it. As it is, Hamas is doomed, as is Gaza. This is the war that they wanted.
Nice gaslighting you have going!
And what, of what I said, is not true?
Approximately 100% of the Israeli propaganda you've regurgitated is untrue. After all, it's a matter of public record that Israel directed Gazans into "safe zones"... and then bombed the safe zones.
You claim El Mawasi is a "safe zone", but just a couple of days ago Israel targeted, shelled and destroyed the clearly marked shelter of Doctors Without Borders in El Mawasi, killing unarmed women/staff sheltering inside. Whom is the "safe zone" safe for, again?
You claim "Israel’s ratio of militant to civilian deaths is one to two or three" but that's merely because you reflexively believe the proven liars in power in Israel when they claim that every woman and child they kill are "militants".
You state "amas to think carefully about the completely foreseeable results of their demonic torture, rape, kidnapping, and murder of thousands of innocents", when Israel's own figure for the October 7th death toll was less than 1,300, including what they state were around 700 civilians. Since when 700 civilians turn into "thousands of innocents"? Heck, when did 1,300 people turn into "thousands" of people, period? If you were actually secure in your beliefs you wouldn't feel the need to exaggerate the crimes of your hated enemies in this way.
I could go on, but at this point it's obvious where you're coming from, and it's obvious what the quality level of your arguments is.
You are either a zionist or a zionist apologist. Your "facts" are merely opinions.
Zionism isn’t a dirty word. It’s simply believing that Israel has a right to exist. You’re disgusting
Zionism is the BELIEF that one is entitled to have a state based on one ersatz religion. We in the US have a Constitution that proclaims the right to religious freedom. You support the Constitution or the Zionists. Take your choice.
You state "Zionism isn’t a dirty word. It’s simply believing that Israel has a right to exist."
Wrongo: Zionism is the belief that an Israeli quasi-ethno-state should exist. Whereas in fact ethno-nationalism is always a negative. Israel is an autocracy, not a democracy. Second class citizenship for undesirables has been codified in law as well as in practice for the past few years in Israel.
Israel SHOULD exist... as an actual democracy without preferential treatment for one people or another.
What is a Zionist?
Someone who believes in their own ethno/religious supremacy on stolen land.
It's a war, not a genocide. Yes, they're trying to topple a regime, but they are not trying to wipe out a people. Just an army that hides itself among the civilians, and has admitted to using ambulances, schools, and hospitals to transport ammunition and hide their headquarters.
Another zionist opinion.
It’s an opinion.
One of the most militarily advanced nuclear powers in the world waging a "war" against 2 million impoverished, malnourished prisoners, reducing their homes to rubble, withholding essential medical aid, food and even water and STATING that that's exactly what they're doing, publicly, killing tens of thousands of unarmed civilians that have nothing to do with Hamas?
One would have to be extraordinarily deluded to claim that that's a "war". It's a genocide.
Oh bullshit. It’s not a genocide it’s a freaking war that was started by Hamas. Go whine somewhere else.
As noted above, it fits the definition of genocide as per UN conventions. The truth very much does not care about your feelings.
It's also not true that the conflagration "started" on October 7th last year as you opine. It's lastly not true that the most militarily advanced nuclear power in the region could wage any kind of legitimate "war" against a couple of million impoverished, starving civilian prisoners in Gaza. One would have to be both ignorant and shockingly hypocritical to make the kind of claims you are making.
Genocide is occuring - by Israel, supported by Nazi-clone Jews and others. And fyi given genocide is a word invented not so long ago, we now accept the creation of the verb genociding.
Genocide occurred on October 7th. That was definitely genocide genociding evil landing on innocent civilians.
No, that was a large terrorist act. Genocide is what the Nazi state of Israel is perpetrating now, with its Nazi Warsaw Ghetto operation magnified x1000.
But if Hamas gets its way the Jews will be “genocided.” AND Hamas is the group putting their women & children in harm’s way. They initiated the conflict by a terrorist act. Then continually & deliberately put their women& children in harm’s way. As part of a sick strategy to win the war of public opinion.
Isn’t it shocking the public opinion that lauds this terrorist, genocidal attack?!
It's not Jews but Zionists who are trying to exterminate all Palestinians. That has been their intention all along. Zionists are atheists. Therefore, not Jews. Palestinians understand this. Apparently you do not. The Palestinians are not interested in "genociding" anyone; they want their human rights. They want the killing of their children to stop. Enough already.
Ah yes, that is exactly what the Nazis did. They slaughtered civilian populations whenever they were attacked. But Lidice and the Warsaw Ghetto are small fry compared to the current Genocide in Gaza. With starvation now being used instead of gas chambers.
Really, this victim pose as the Jewish genocide in Gaza proceeds is pretty Goebbelian. And did I mention the terror attacks on helpless civilians by the IDF and settlers on the West Bank that have gone up exponentially under cover of the Gaza genocide?
I’m not aware of the Nazi ghetto operation in Israel. Never been there. But yes terrorists. And they also genuinely hate Jews. They openly call for their death. Isn’t that genocide?
It's the IDF who killed most of the people who died on October 7, 2023. Palestinians don't hate Jews. They co-existed with Jews long before the establishment of Israel. The Zionists are the ones who hate Jews and are putting them in harm's way as we speak.
Really? It's in the news every day. Erroneously called the "war in Gaza." A sophisticated military raining death on helpless children, women and men. Just like the Nazi Warsaw Ghetto op. And now implementing its version of the Final Solution via starvation - after also destroying every hospital and 75% of the homes.
But you're a Good German, you dont see it.
And please - trying to play the victim here is pretty horrendous, even for racist Zionists.
Try reading Anti-Judaism: The Western Tradition by David Nirenberg.
It's pretty pathetic that you try to pretend that Israel and Jews are the victims here. The whole world has woken up to the reality of Jewish racism, apartheid and ethnic cleansing. But you never cease the charade of playing the victim - a really shameless performance.
Most of the civilians were killed by IDF tanks and helicopters, so no. A people subjected to apartheid have every right to fight for their freedom.
Paulette, your rhetoric in calling Jews Nazis is completely inappropiate, and you know it. This is the ultimate in offensive anti-semitism. It is not appropriate here.
You are conflating the term Jew with the term Zionist. Nobody here is "hating Jews".
I'm a retired English teacher.
I can without hesitation assure you that "genociding" is not a word.
But perhaps "anti-Semiting" is.
Some of us know how the English language evolves as words come into common usage. Just as "genocide" wasn't a word till it was invented after WW2. Some of us also know what close reading is, and know that "we accept a word" is not the same as "this word is already in the OED." But given the caliber of today's English teachers, not surprising that is not understood here!
And to get back to the point - this tired, lame attempt to equate valid criticism of Israeli atrocities with antiSemitism is LONG past its sell-by date. Nice Goebbelian try, though.
OK. I say you're "bigoting."
Nice Goebbelian try!
lol. 👍🏻
Well maybe the next statement is the war crime that Hamas did by embedding in all the hospitals in Gaza.
Nah, that's Israel's dubious claim, not reality.
You enjoy shilling for Hamas.
To speak the truth isn't to "shill" for one side or the other. You should try speaking the truth sometime.
Medical school education is as much about teaching medical knowledge and science as it is about teaching someone how to think and behave as a professional. It is great to have opinions and to be passionate about them. It is wonderful to take that passion to a protest or rally or to raise money for a cause. It is not professional to behave this way in a forum attended by presumably professional individuals.
This type of behavior, if exhibited in the hospital or clinic, will result in professional discipline some day. The medical students might as well learn that now - it will not be okay to yell at a patient or spout political ideology to staff working with them in the near future. The leadership of the school needs to help them to understand the consequences of acting out in this fashion - before they wind up dismissed from a job.
100% agree. What has happened to the definition of professionalism? I don’t think they know what that actually means in a broad, real world, dealing with patients way.
Once again, thank you, Vinay, for bringing this incident to our attention. The students, if they actually were students, definitely deserve some sort of negative consequence as this was neither the time nor the place for such behavior. I completely agree that the AMA and other professional organizations have become politicized and captured by pharmaceutical companies, food manufacturers, and other special interests who don’t really care about improving health outcomes of our population.
I’m hoping the pendulum will swing back and schools will lead by example and actually teach professional demeanor and behavior.
The pendulum will swing back. These kids are tomorrow's leaders. It behooves all of us to listen to them.
Is there no place in "professionalism" for ethics?
1). I am not certain that this type of behavior would bring discipline from the hierarchy at my institution, so long as the outrage was in line with those who were calling the shots.
2.) To be a professional means you are paid a fee to complete a job, regardless of what is involved in completion of the job. When I decided to pursue a career in clinical medicine/surgery, I thought that was nonnegotiable. I see very few more recently graduated “professionals“ see it the same way. In fact, all evidence points to the contrary. I recently had a partner beside himself that he would have to take two weekends of call in a month because someone else was on vacation, and that amount of call was too stressful and affecting his personal life.
So the available evidence suggests that what is currently getting taught in medical school, may not be similar to what was taught in the past.
I saw so many doctors lose their minds, in a political and totally unprofessional way, over covid and vaccines during the pandemic. It has made me opt out of the whole system. When I see these self-righteous idiots shouting down this lecturer I am pretty sure I won't be returning to the care setting any time soon. It isn't safe, and these people are ideologically insane. A witch doctor has more credibility than these preening fools. They lack the maturity necessary to be responsible for other people's health.
Shouting down any speaker is more than rude, counterproductive, disrespectful, or appropriate to learning. This should not be allowed anywhere! What good are they doing? People will see this as a negative to what their topic is. They should be disciplined for this and made an example of to others! A professional arena is particularly shameful. Do they not see how this reflects on them? On the profession? Their future?
If they are not allowed an equal forum in which to be heard, what do expect them to do? Of course they are going to put in their two cents. Their opinions and right to speak have become crimes, according to the Congress. This is ridiculous.
So I graduated from med school 23 years ago and back then you need volunteerism on your application but about 5-10 years ago that was changed to activism. That’s how this happens, we are prioritizing activists over altruists. Not all radical progress is in the right direction.
Activism over altruism. This is very astute.
An institution that doesn't hold their students to a higher level of respect for civil discourse doesn't deserve to exist.
I'm with you. And I worry gravely about what's happening with our young folks in all disciplines. I'd like to think they will see the error of their youthful foolishness as they mature but I don't think that will happen. The positive side of being old is that I won't have to endure what our country will become.
You do sound like an old fogey. This is unsettling as I expect you are my contemporary.
I agree with your last sentence, however.
The insistence that at all times everyone must be making political pronouncements of an exact nature and 100% adhering to a specific agenda every time (eg masking, war mongering, etc).. is the ruination of everything "liberal" and "progressive". This continued shouting political agenda in completely inappropriate places is showing those involved their level of detachment from the world, they should have been asked to leave.
No, it’s the culmination of everything progressive, big difference.
Nothing logical can explain their actions. I suspect this phenomenon is due to young people spending less time interacting with real people (socially and professionally). Also the allure of becoming an Instagram hero is potent.
This is really scary because it’s true. If you watch kids today together at a restaurant or out somewhere, they are all looking at their phones. It must be terrifying for them to think—let me put this down and talk to people. Good grief!
They get all their "news" from TikTok & Meta. "Useful idiots" being manipulated by the enemies of enlightenment & democracy
Same with the NPCs robotically peddling Hamas propaganda on this thread. They’re morons—at best.
ironically they claim a moral high ground but their MO is completely amoral & revolves around an addiction to online conflict. So right now it's all about calling Jews liars but when the war's over they'll just move on to the next scapegoat. It only stops if friends & family intervene to break the addiction just like a drug addiction